Man Ram retires

[bsmooth]

It's NOT about the numbers and the drugs, those are 2 different debates. Your missing the entire point of this debate. But whatever. Believe what ya want

Really? What proof or facts do you proffer up to back your claims? Was Manny that much more feared than Pujols? The game of baseball is based the most on stats than any other sport in this country. Stats are the primary means that members make it into the HOF.
So without the numbers, how does Manny hold a level above Pujols as a hitter?

[Phishfan]

But all of the baseball insiders (ie Onley, Gammons, Verducci) agree with me. So I am in good company!

I have no dog in the fight, but I have to comment more on your debating tactics. All baseball insiders agree with you? I'm sorry but I guarantee that they don't. They may all agree Manny is one of the best, but you are speaking as if him being the best is fact and it just isn't so.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Thanks... I've heard Gammons and Olney both refer to Manny as "one of the best RH hitters...," but not "the best RH hitter..." as well.

Not that I would ever contest ANYTHING that MikeO says, because everyone knows that the moment something comes out of his mouth/keyboard, it becomes empirical truth...stats be damned.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I would like to add 2 things:

1) He may be the best RHH of the past 30 years, but damn if he didn't make it look the easiest.

2) Only MLB player to ever test positive twice, and he wasn't named on the Mitchell Report.

[MikeO]

I would like to add 2 things:

1) He may be the best RHH of the past 30 years, but damn if he didn't make it look the easiest.

2) Only MLB player to ever test positive twice, and he wasn't named on the Mitchell Report.

Because Mitchell collects a paycheck from the Red Sox. His report while true, also showed lots of bias

[masterfins]

So let me recap, MikeO listens to a few sports reporters overhype the story of the day for ratings and MikeO repeats it as gospel.  The knowledgable who aren't sucked in to the hype correct him with facts and he gets bent out of shape that anyone could possible have an opinion other than his.  Just another day on the TDMMC board.

MikeO just so you don't think I am totally attacking you, you do occasionally make a good point, I read one earlier.

[MikeO]

So let me recap, MikeO listens to a few sports reporters overhype the story of the day for ratings and MikeO repeats it as gospel.  The knowledgable who aren't sucked in to the hype correct him with facts and he gets bent out of shape that anyone could possible have an opinion other than his.  Just another day on the TDMMC board.

MikeO just so you don't think I am totally attacking you, you do occasionally make a good point, I read one earlier.

hate to break it to ya, I had this opinion a lot longer than a week ago!! Just sayin

And the facts presented were arguing a debate I didn't bring up!!! Nobody is knocking Arod or Puljos and their numbers or their run producing stats. But that wasn't the debate I brought up!!! 

[Pappy13]

And the facts presented were arguing a debate I didn't bring up!!!

So you didn't say this...

Best right handed hitter in MLB the past 30+ years.

I think that's what they were debating.

[MikeO]

So you didn't say this...
I think that's what they were debating.

This isnt' a stats debate as I stated from the forefront. That's the fact you keep overlooking. Being the best right handed hitter the past 30 years isn't as simple as who has the best numbers. It goes beyond that. I have tried to explain it over and over but you fail keep getting upset over something I never said nor am I debating.

So have fun in your "fantasy world"....but your NOT talking about the topic I brought up.  Barry Bonds has the best numbers of any left handed hitter the past 30 years, that doesn't make him the best left handed hitter though!  It goes beyond numbers.

Whatever, Im done trying to put this square peg in the round hole with some of you. Believe what you want. Live in whatever reality you create in your own head

[bsmooth]

This isnt' a stats debate as I stated from the forefront. That's the fact you keep overlooking. Being the best right handed hitter the past 30 years isn't as simple as who has the best numbers. It goes beyond that. I have tried to explain it over and over but you fail keep getting upset over something I never said nor am I debating.

So have fun in your "fantasy world"....but your NOT talking about the topic I brought up.  Barry Bonds has the best numbers of any left handed hitter the past 30 years, that doesn't make him the best left handed hitter though!  It goes beyond numbers.

Whatever, Im done trying to put this square peg in the round hole with some of you. Believe what you want. Live in whatever reality you create in your own head

No just saying something with out a shred of evidence to back up your claims means nothing. I have heard him called one of the best RH hitters, but no one has made the claim you have that he is the best for the last three decades.
Baseball is all about numbers. How many players are on the bubble of getting into Cooperstown because that do not have "automatic" HOF numbers? Once players achieve certain statistical milestones they are considered truly great and are pretty much a lock. ARod and Pujols are going into the HoF and have been MVP's and you are saying Manny is a level above both of them with out nothing but your words to back your claims.
So step up and explain how not counting statistics that Manny is the greatest RH hitter in the last 30 years. Is that so much to ask?

[masterfins]

hate to break it to ya, I had this opinion a lot longer than a week ago!! Just sayin

And the facts presented were arguing a debate I didn't bring up!!! Nobody is knocking Arod or Puljos and their numbers or their run producing stats. But that wasn't the debate I brought up!!! 

Thanks for setting me straight, now I understand.

A) It is your opinion, which is perfectly fine.

B) Facts and Statistics have nothing to do with your opinion on this matter, which is also perfectly fine.

[Phishfan]

I had this opinion a lot longer than a week ago!!

Hell, earlier you said it was a fact now it is opinion. Which is it?

[fyo]

Hell, earlier you said it was a fact now it is opinion. Which is it?

I believe it's been well established that MikeO's opinions are, by that very virtue, facts.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Nah, MikeO thinks I'm the only one who feels that way, and anyone else who expresses similar sentiment is obviously just a tool of the Sunstroke propaganda machine.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

Live in whatever reality you create in your own head

Hello Kettle......this is Pot......yeah ummm by the way......You're Black!!!!!!