NO Palmer or Young to Miami according to Mort

[MikeO]

Would you rather take Orton now or use the second along with a first next year to get Luck? Of course this is just an example and also assumes Luck continues to be the guy people think he is.  Our options are probably better if we wait and do not waste picks on trying to develop someone elses's cast offs.

Any team that has a chance to take Luck will. They won't trade away that pick. I don't care if they already have a young QB. This kid is being labeld the "next Peyton Manning"....you don't trade that away!

[Pappy13]

Acquiring any of the following QBs would instantly make Miami the favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl:

P. Manning
Brady
Brees
Rodgers

So I guess I'm to assume by your comment that you believe the Miami is equal to or better than New England, New Orleans, Indy and Green Bay in every way except QB?  With a rookie RB? With an offensive line that's far from proven? With a slightly above average TE and no depth at TE? With CB's with plenty of upside but have yet to prove themselves reliable? With a star WR coming off his worst season? With kick and punt coverage teams that are well below average. With punt and kick returners that are only average? With very little team speed in almost every position? And that's assuming that no one is injured or plays below last year's level.

I think you're fooling yourself. There's still a LOT of parts that need to come together besides QB for Miami to be considered favorites to represent the AFC. Now maybe Miami has found the answer to a few of those parts, but we won't really know until we start playing the games.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Now maybe if we took Brady and gave them Henne in return, we might be better than them.

[Spider-Dan]

So I guess I'm to assume by your comment that you believe the Miami is equal to or better than New England, New Orleans, Indy and Green Bay in every way except QB?

Let me reverse your question and my position should be clear:

If Chad Henne were the quarterback of any of those teams, they would be no better than Miami will be this year.  How many wins do you see a Henne-QBed NE, NO, IND, or GB getting?

[dolfan13]

in nfl football, the only position where a guy can literally just take over the game is the quarterback. running an offense is about matchups, and a quarterback that understands how to exploit the matchups in real time (not just from a pre-programmed play), is something you just can't defend against.

take away peyton manning, tom brady, rodgers, etc... from their respective teams and they would be mediocre to below average teams.

the dolphins have been without a quality qb that can impact games for soooooo long, that fans forget how much of a difference a great qb can have on the outcome of the game.

[Pappy13]

Let me reverse your question and my position should be clear:

If Chad Henne were the quarterback of any of those teams, they would be no better than Miami will be this year.  How many wins do you see a Henne-QBed NE, NO, IND, or GB getting?

More than a Henne led Miami. My point is that you just named 4 teams that have better QB's than Miami. I think you can add several more to that list. Pittsburgh and San Diego spring to mind in the AFC alone.  That's at least 4 teams in the AFC alone that have better QB's than Miami. Simply giving Miami a QB on par with those QB's does not automatically make them favorites, it merely gives them a shot about on par with the shot that those other teams have. Even then SEVERAL other things would have to come together for Miami to be considered favorites. You're making BIG assumptions on how effective the rookies that Miami drafted are going to be. Pouncey in no way guarantees Miami will have a dominant or even very good offensive line.  Unless Miami resigns either Ricky or Ronnie, Miami will be putting the ball in the hands of very inexperienced backs. Not saying that can't work, only that it's a HUGE assumption that it will especially when you take into consideration that none of them will get much preseason work in. Miami didn't address it's TE problem. It didn't address it's problem of covering TE's and backs with LB's. They didn't address their kick return problem. They didn't appear to address their kick coverage woes.

Yes, I realize that all teams have issues, no one is flawless. However I think Miami's flaws are bigger in some cases and a lack of stars in other positions means that they have less margin for error than other teams do. You can make up for a lot of deficiencies with 2 or 3 well placed stars, but it takes more than 1 even if that star is at QB. Miami for years had what I consider the best pure passing QB of all time and never won a SB. One man can't do it all. If they could the best QB would win the SB every year. One of the best usually wins it, but only because he gets a LOT of help. For every QB that has won the SB, I can probably name 2 or 3 other players on the team that were at or near the top of their position.

[Spider-Dan]

More than a Henne led Miami. My point is that you just named 4 teams that have better QB's than Miami. I think you can add several more to that list. Pittsburgh and San Diego spring to mind in the AFC alone.

That's exactly why I did add Big Ben and Rivers (along with Ryan and Vick) to the list of QBs that would potentially make Miami a favorite to win the division.

That's at least 4 teams in the AFC alone that have better QB's than Miami. Simply giving Miami a QB on par with those QB's does not automatically make them favorites, it merely gives them a shot about on par with the shot that those other teams have.

Miami with Brady is unquestionably better than NE (sans Brady), IND, and SD, with a strong argument to be made against PIT.  I don't see how you can dispute this.

Pouncey in no way guarantees Miami will have a dominant or even very good offensive line.

Which of those teams have "dominant" offensive lines right now?

Miami didn't address it's TE problem. It didn't address it's problem of covering TE's and backs with LB's. They didn't address their kick return problem. They didn't appear to address their kick coverage woes.

Do we really want to run down, say, IND's roster and see which holes they have?

You act as if the teams that these elite QBs are on have no questions at offensive tackle (both of which we have solved), or pass rusher (which we have solved), or K/P (which we have solved), or a top-ten #1 WR (which we have solved), or a quality slot receiver (which we have solved), etc.

Every team has needs and wants; Miami is no exception.  Pointing out our needs while ignoring the needs of other teams doesn't prove much, unless our needs are more substantial than theirs (like, say, quarterback).

[Pappy13]

Miami with Brady is unquestionably better than NE (sans Brady), IND, and SD, with a strong argument to be made against PIT.  I don't see how you can dispute this.

It's very simple, I don't buy it. I don't buy Miami's D is NEARLY as good as you believe. It's DEFINATELY not as good as Pittsburgh's and it's probably not as good as New England's and San Diego's.

You act as if the teams that these elite QBs are on have no questions at offensive tackle (both of which we have solved), or pass rusher (which we have solved), or K/P (which we have solved), or a top-ten #1 WR (which we have solved), or a quality slot receiver (which we have solved), etc.

And you act as if all of those teams are FAVORITES to win the SB.  The fact is that even with better QB's than Miami not ALL of those teams can be the favorite. Which one is the favorite? Which ones are not? Why not? They have good QB's, so they must be favorite to win the SB or so you seem to be implying.

Yes, other teams have holes, they also have more stars. Compare pro bowl caliber players from teams like Pittsburgh, New England, Jets, Indy, San Diego, Baltimore etc the last 2 or 3 years.  Miami usually has 1 maybe 2, the other teams consistently have 3 or 4. Now maybe a few of those here and there don't really deserve it, but the pattern is obvious. Those teams have more talent than Miami. They just do. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

[Spider-Dan]

It's very simple, I don't buy it. I don't buy Miami's D is NEARLY as good as you believe. It's DEFINATELY not as good as Pittsburgh's and it's probably not as good as New England's and San Diego's.

Defensive rankings last year:

SD- 1
PIT- 2
MIA- 6
NE- 25

NE's defense was not good at all in 2010.

And you act as if all of those teams are FAVORITES to win the SB.  The fact is that even with better QB's than Miami not ALL of those teams can be the favorite. Which one is the favorite?

Obviously, one of them has to be the favorite.  My point is that with the addition of an elite QB, MIA would instantly be catapulted into that company, and depending on which QB, would likely be the favorite.  To be completely fair, this is the case for quite a few teams in the league; add Manning, Brady, Brees, or Rodgers to HOU, KC, TB, DAL, NYJ, etc. and they immediately become first-tier teams.

Yes, other teams have holes, they also have more stars. Compare pro bowl caliber players from teams like Pittsburgh, New England, Jets, Indy, San Diego, Baltimore etc the last 2 or 3 years.  Miami usually has 1 maybe 2, the other teams consistently have 3 or 4.

Miami has had exactly 3 Pro Bowlers per year for the last three years, but I see the point you're driving at; I just don't agree with it.  Trade Bess for Welker and I doubt the Pro Bowl roster is the same; it's unlikely that any MIA receiver will be invited as long as we continue to get the same production we have been from the QB position.  I don't buy the idea that Brandon Marshall went from a first-tier to a second-tier WR in one offseason at age 26.

[Pappy13]

Defensive rankings last year:

SD- 1
PIT- 2
MIA- 6
NE- 25

NE's defense was not good at all in 2010.

That's based on yards allowed which doesn't tell the whole story.  Based on points allowed:

Pit - 1
NE - 8
SD - 10
Miami - 14

NE's defense was very bend but don't break. Miami's was very don't bend, just break.

Obviously, one of them has to be the favorite.  My point is that with the addition of an elite QB, MIA would instantly be catapulted into that company, and depending on which QB, would likely be the favorite.

I agree with the first part, that Miami could be in the mix with Brady. I don't agree that even with Brady they become the favorite. It would take a lot of things falling right for Miami to go deep into the playoffs even with Brady or any other QB that we've mentioned. I don't think Henne is holding us back any more than say having an elite RB or elite Defense is. If Miami's D takes another step forward like they did last year and Thomas becomes the back we all hoped Ronnie would be, Miami becomes a hopeful even with Henne. If Henne or some free agent suddenly becomes Bradyish then yeah, SB favorite is within reach, but all 3 of those things happening at the same time? Doubtful.

[Spider-Dan]

That's based on yards allowed which doesn't tell the whole story.  Based on points allowed:

Pit - 1
NE - 8
SD - 10
Miami - 14

NE's defense was very bend but don't break. Miami's was very don't bend, just break.

New England committed 5 interceptions and lost 5 fumbles.  Miami committed 21 interceptions and lost 10 fumbles.  Even when you have a superior defense, when the opponent gets the ball on your 30, it's a lot harder to keep them from scoring.

For the record, team rank in turnovers lost:

NE - 1
PIT - 4
SD - 17
MIA - 23

The only reason NE's defense appeared stingy in points allowed is because their offense practically never gave the opposing team the ball.

[fyo]

The only reason NE's defense appeared stingy in points allowed is because their offense practically never gave the opposing team the ball.

A top-10 special teams unit also helps. (Unlike our bottom 5).

[Pappy13]

New England's D also FORCED an AFC best 38 turnovers to Miami's 19.

Give me NE's D over Miami's last year.

[Spider-Dan]

So New England's defense FORCED (I like that emphasis) twice as many turnovers as Miami's defense, and yet somehow they still managed to allow over 900 yards more to opposing offenses (5864 to 4949) and nearly 90 more first downs (348 to 264)?  How does that work?

Your argument is almost completely summarized as "Sean Smith can't catch, therefore New England had a quality defense."  The Patriots' defense was not even close to good last year.

[MikeO]

Your argument is almost completely summarized as "Sean Smith can't catch, therefore New England had a quality defense."  The Patriots' defense was not even close to good last year.

what the hell are you talking about, New England was 14-2. Their defense did something right 

[Sunstroke]

So New England's defense FORCED (I like that emphasis) twice as many turnovers as Miami's defense, and yet somehow they still managed to allow over 900 yards more to opposing offenses (5864 to 4949) and nearly 90 more first downs (348 to 264)?  How does that work?

The answer to that question seems pretty simple to graph out:

New England's potent offense
+ New England's heavy-turnover defense
= early New England leads
= opponents cranking up the offense to get big chunks of yardage to catch up on the scoreboard.
Result: increased opponent yardage totals

Miami's weak offense
+ Miami's non-turnover creating defense
= early Miami deficits
= opponents playing conservative on offense to control ball and burn clock.
Result = decreased opponent yardage totals