Is it sexist not to care about women's sports?

[Tenshot13]

Whatever.  Vick has probably been playing football since he was old enough to walk. He's had YEARS of training to hone his skills.  Even in a wheelchair he can read the defense better than anyone here at anytime in our lives.  That's skill buddy, got nothing whatsoever to do with athleticism.

Now he's certainly not the best at it, but he's no moron either. His superior athleticism allows him to be a little less skilled than maybe a Peyton Manning, but he's in the same ballpark as him when it comes to skill and that ball park is WAY over the heads of you and me.

I think your missing my point, buddy.  Vick had a little skill pre-arrest but was considered a starting QB because of his athleticism.  If you took his legs away from him, he would have been a shit QB.  He may have had skill but it wasn't on an NFL level until last year.  Skill would be accuarcy and reading defenses, things he was poor at.  Athleticism is rushing for over 1000 yards in a season as a QB and using your mobility to keep plays alive, not to mention throwing the ball eighty yards, things he was good at.

[Pappy13]

I think your missing my point, buddy.  Vick had a little skill pre-arrest but was considered a starting QB because of his athleticism.  If you took his legs away from him, he would have been a shit QB.

In the NFL maybe, but that's still a lot better than 99% of people.  He didn't get into the NFL on JUST his athleticism. He got there on both his athleticism and his skill at being a QB. I'm sure that if you tried you could find people that were faster, stronger etc, but they wouldn't have ALSO been better QB's than Vick.

He may have had skill but it wasn't on an NFL level until last year.

I think you mean he wasn't at the TOP of the NFL level until last year. He absolutely WAS at an NFL level or he wouldn't have been in the NFL.  Like I said, I don't think it would have been that tough to find someone as fast or as strong, but you wouldn't have been able to find someone as fast, as strong AND as skilled at QB as Vick and that was even prior to last year.

Skill would be accuarcy and reading defenses, things he was poor at.

According to what standard? NFL QB's - I'll buy that. College QB's, no way he was better than all but a few. High School QB's - no one could touch him.

Athleticism is rushing for over 1000 yards in a season as a QB and using your mobility to keep plays alive, not to mention throwing the ball eighty yards, things he was good at.

That's ON TOP of his ability to read defenses,  etc.

[Doc-phin]

I think the only way this topic could become more tedious is if it were to devolve into whether cheerleading is a "sport".

I have some pretty killer "spirit fingers".  

Not sure how many will get that reference.

Also - Don't be hatin' Pappy!  I had some skeelz, son!  Really though, I always had a good knack for sports.  I am not going to elaborate because it serves no purpose, but I will tell you I have had an experience similar to Dave's basketball story.  My stories involve soccer and tennis both at a high level (and no I wasn't some sort of pro).  All I can say is that the ladies look a lot better when they are playing each other and both times the outcome wasn't even close.  Each time they kept on talking about how shocked they were at how fast everything was moving.

Women are great, but sports isn't their forte.

[Spider-Dan]

Michael Vick made the Pro Bowl 3 times in ATL; in 2005, he made it rushing for less yards and TDs (in 15 games for ATL) than he did last year (in 12 games for PHI)... so it obviously wasn't just based on his athleticism.

Claiming that Vick was not playing "on an NFL level" in Atlanta is absurd.

[Pappy13]

Also - Don't be hatin' Pappy!  I had some skeelz, son!

I don't doubt it, but how do we know the ladies you played against were any good? Did you beat Chris Evert or Mia Hamm?

Since you don't want to share, I'll share one of my experiences. My 2nd eldest daughter Jessica used to play indoor soccer with several other pretty good girls. She was the goalie. They played against girls most of the time and pretty much beat most of the teams they played against, so one year they decided to play against the boys when they were about 12 or 13 I think it was. When the boys saw they were playing girls they all thought it was easy win for them. It was quite funny watching mom and dads scream at their boys when they ended up getting beat by a bunch of girls. They ended up losing in the championship game, their only loss that year, but they earned the respect of every last boy they played against. Now this was just some indoor league, so they weren't playing against great teams or anything like that, most of boys were from rec teams while these girls were all from select teams, but they were playing against boys the same age as them. The boys were faster and stronger, but they weren't as talented and with it being indoor, the size of the field made their superior speed less valuable. Skill won out over speed most games.

[bsmooth]

So, I have a question:

All of the people who are saying that size, speed, strength are just too much to overcome... surely you must believe that NBA players are the biggest, fastest, strongest people in the world, right?

I'm pretty sure that you could take a team of (male) NBA players, and a team of (male) track-and-field stars who are bigger, faster, and stronger... and the NBA players would wipe the f*cking floor with them in a game of basketball.

Does skill count for nothing in your world?

Do you have any common sense in your world? You keep using the most assinine comparisons to try and make your point. You keep comparing professional female atheletes to amatuer males. Now you are comparing two different sports against each other.. So in answer to your ridiculous premise no the US track and field team would not beat the US basketball team in basketball, just as the basketball team would not win track and field.
But as I stated earlier, why do you and the other woman sports defenders refuse to compare mens and womans teams of equal skill level? Is it because once skill is equaled, the sheer natural physical dominance would take over? I would love to see the NCAA championship team play the worst WNBA team to see if your theory that skill alone can win out. But even if the WNBA team does win, could it win against a comparible NBA team even though the WNBA players are considered to be more fundamentally skilled players?
The PC bullshit that is permeating the attacks against people who do not choose to watch womens sports is sickening.
If skill is better than athleticism, there would be a lot more overachievers in professional sports than their are.

[Spider-Dan]

But as I stated earlier, why do you and the other woman sports defenders refuse to compare mens and womans teams of equal skill level?

Because that entirely misses the point!

When you define the comparison as between "persons of equal skill," of course the smaller, slower, weaker people will lose!  There is no way to make up for the difference in athleticism because you have EXCLUDED skill (as a variable) from the comparison.

I would love to see the NCAA championship team play the worst WNBA team to see if your theory that skill alone can win out.

I would love to see a team of Olympic decathletes take on the worst NBA team to see if your theory works (namely: skill doesn't matter, size/speed/strength is everything).

But even if the WNBA team does win, could it win against a comparible NBA team even though the WNBA players are considered to be more fundamentally skilled players?

Who the hell thinks WNBA players are more skilled than NBA players?  Give me a break with that ridiculous strawman.

P.S. If you think I'm arguing in favor of women's sports, you should try reading the thread again.  I have no interest in women's sports OR college sports... but I don't try to pretend that women's sports are an affront to my standards of Superior Sporting Product, while madly cheering on the Buckeyes or the Gators.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think the only way this topic could become more tedious is if it were to devolve into whether cheerleading is a "sport".

It is.  And it is one sport where even mediocre women do better than the best men.  Kinda the opposite of basketball. 

[Doc-phin]

I don't doubt it, but how do we know the ladies you played against were any good? Did you beat Chris Evert or Mia Hamm?

Well, they weren't pros but the soccer team was one of the better ones (college) at the time and several had been rumored to be offered professional/international invites.  It was a little stronger than just a rumor really.  The tennis situation was ranked.  I was a little surprised that I never saw the tennis player go on to bigger things, maybe she felt she was starting a little late.  I don't keep up with girls soccer enough to know if any of the players moved forward but they definitely weren't high profile.

I will say this Pappy...  I give you credit for holding it down for the ladies, your doing a great job!  I really don't want to make it sound like I think they are bad at sports, just that they have some inherent short comings that keeps them from being at the level I like to watch.  I will also say that as more money goes into ladies sports, I could see better and better talent coming to the forefront.  Some of the better lady athletes I have seen gave up on their games after college.  To many of them the benefit was a scholarship mixed with an opportunity to have some competitive fun.

[Dave Gray]

It is.  And it is one sport where even mediocre women do better than the best men.  Kinda the opposite of basketball. 

Cheerleading is most definitely not a sport.  However, even as an activity, like with gymnastics, women are not better than men.  Different things are asked of each.  Men are better at throwing the girls up, the girls are better at tumbling around.  Same with ice dancing or whatever else.

[Sunstroke]

Because I don't care about women's sports...doesn't make me sexist.

Because I don't watch the LOGO channel...doesn't make me homophobic.

Because I can't stand watching Tyler Perry movies...doesn't make me a racist.

[StL FinFan]

Men are (generally) bigger and stronger than women.  Fact.  It's not sexist.  I watch women compete in the Olympics and in world competitions.  Otherwise, I don't care.  It doesn't make me sexist and it doesn't make a man sexist either.  We are used to people not wanting to watch us compete.  We play because we love our sport.

[Dave Gray]

^ And more power to you.  I love that women's sports exist and that women choose that as a way to be competitive.  However, I just don't find interest in it as a spectator.  I am having a daughter soon, and I hope that she plays sports.  It's not that I dislike it, but I just don't have any investment.

[Pappy13]

I will say this Pappy...  I give you credit for holding it down for the ladies, your doing a great job!

Thanks. Maybe I am a little biased having married a woman that was highly competitive in women's sports and had 2 girls that were highly competitive as well. On the other hand I tend to believe that I've just been exposed to it more than some. My daughter played on a soccer team that was ranked #2 in the country when she was 13. My daughter wasn't a starter, but I watched that team play and knew how good they were. I also had a son 1 year younger that played select although on a much weaker team. My daughter's team would have slaughtered my son's team and it wouldn't have been close. I don't think they would have beaten the top boys team in the area, but they wouldn't have been blown out either.

Yes that's at 13, the difference between the girls and the boys does increase as they get older, but I'm not trying to argue that the top women's team could top the top men's team, only that the top women's team could top an average men's team.

That's only my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Dave Gray]

Side story:

2 girls from my work were talking crap about volleyball, so me and my buddy Barimo challenged them to a game.  The girls played volleyball in high school and me and my buddy don't play at all.  He estimated that he hadn't played in several years.  I hadn't played in about a year, and even then, it was not with any kind of regularity.

So, we had a big challenge and, to be honest, I was a little bit scared that we were going to get smoked, having no experience.  In short, the girls didn't score 1 point.