Phins trying to get Tebow?

[JVides]

Tebow's a gamer. He's performed well in all NFL games hes started and did his thing TONIght

I'd pick Tebow over henne any day

Tebow has a documented history of having problems reading defenses.  Tebow came from a simple offense that allowed him one or two reads, after which he was off running (not exactly the NFL QB way).  Tebow plays like a LB and takes (relishes?) contact.  This makes him an injury risk.  Tebow is not very accurate, from everything I'm reading.  Tebow is having his ass handed to him by Kyle Orton, whom many (and I mean many) analysts say isn't much better than Chad Henne (and Orton's QBR or 52.9, a paltry upgrade over Henne's 51.1, would seem to substantiate the claim).
By any measurable metric, how can anyone seriously pine for Tebow?

[MixLovesThemPhins]

mike u do that

u forget that faulk was on the offense that was labeled "the greatest show on turf"

faulk is not a WR can u say faulk was the best reciving RB of all time, maybe u can, but as far as RUSHING u cannot say faulk is better then edge

edge has 4 seasons over 1500 yards rushing, how many does faulk have

[Spider-Dan]

This response isnt to you landshark. It's for guys with an unbiased view of the situation. He played in 3 NFL games last year to end the season and outperformed Henne in all of them.

Two were against solid defenses in the raiders and chargers.


And if anyone wants to say throw those games out because of the lack of playoff implications... You're discounting the importance that players put in inter divisional rivalries.

Funny that you mention that.  Henne also played against the Raiders (who apparently have "solid defense") in a game with playoff implications.  Let's compare Henne and Tebow's stat lines:

Henne- 17/30, 307, 2 TD, 1 INT
Tebow- 8/16, 138, 1 TD, 0 INT

That's outperforming?  Are you using the Trent Dilfer performance scale?

[Pappy13]

I was watching the game last night when Babe Laufenberg (Cowboys announcer and former NFL QB) said that he'd never seen anyone look worse in pre-game warmups than Tebow did last night. He said that he was skipping the ball in and overthrowing receivers and this was with no defensive players around. He apparently did OK once he got into the game, I'm just pointing out what everyone who watches Tebow in practice says, that his accuracy is terrible. Maybe he is a gamer, but he's gonna have to fix his accuracy problems before anyone is gonna make him their permanent starter.

[badger6]

I can't believe this is even a discussion anymore. Henne has shown that he is not a very good QB by lackluster play and game losing mistakes and he has been consistent at it. Now everyone is bashing Tebow and he hasn't even had a chance to fail like Henne. Kinda like the Thigpen situation last year as far as I'm concerned....

[fyo]

no one develops qb's in the nfl anymore. that is primarily tebow's problem he now faces too. developing a qb takes years of investment to even figure out if you have something that is going to work, that quite frankly today's nfl regimes can't make. they mostly are in an out in a matter of 3 years.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Belichick managed to develop Matt Cassel?

It's probably not worthwhile (for anyone) to try and divine anything from examples like Manning and Marino. Sure, there are elements you could point to (like Manning's horrible first season), but considering that these guys are two of the top all-time passers in the game... no, not worth it.

You are right that it takes time to develop a good quarterback.

Let me ask you, what do you think a guy like Carr could have become had he been sitting as Brady's backup instead of Cassel? Instead, he wound up a rookie starter and punching bag in Houston behind a horrible line. He just never got the chance to develop into a star. As it was, he had a very solid career starting 5 years in a row (missing a handful of games to injury). Impressive under the circumstances.

What about Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay? IMHO, he's one of the best quarterbacks in the league right now (not the best) and with his best years ahead of him. How do you honestly think he would have done had he gone to Cleveland instead of Green Bay? Or even to the Dolphins... I'm completely confident we would have wrecked him completely. If lucky, we'd have gotten a few mediocre years out of him after which he'd be bouncing around the league trying to get a backup gig.

My point is that surroundings matter. A lot. Without the right circumstances in place, the criteria for picking (someone who becomes) a "great quarterback" go from tough to neigh-impossible.

I'd love to see Miami try to develop their quarterbacks. To try and put a system in place that plays to the strengths of our quarterbacks, helps them improve, and supports them. And if a player doesn't succeed under those conditions, fine, by all means draft a new prospect. But don't throw away a player after a handful of starts on a team that's already given up.

[dolfan13]

belichick didn't develop matt cassel. he identified cassel as having the right skill set to be a succesful nfl qb in a short amount of time.

look, it's going to become even more important now to id the right guy as quickly as possible. there is no more a significant penalty to roll the dice on the new qb's coming into the league at the top of the draft.

more qb's are going to go real early in the draft, and more will be recycled out of the league at a faster pace.

btw, there is a reason why guys like carr, beck, lienart, etc... all play bad. they really actually suck as qb's and no amount of "development" is going to make them perform any better.

[Spider-Dan]

dolfan13, do you think that it's an amazing coincidence that "good" QBs all seem to have competent front offices?

Surely you can't believe that environment has nothing to do with which QBs fail and succeed.

[dolfan13]

i think good front offices realize that the most important decision they have to make is to hit on is a qb. first thing pioli does is go out and get a qb in kansas city. same thing with dimetrioff in atlanta.

where was belichick's god like football coach abilities in cleveland? what about mularkey when he was here with the fins? coaches and their systems get way too much credit here.

the dolphins approach to finding a qb post-marino has been to shop at the dollar store, where other organizations shop at nordstrom's.

atlanta v dolphins is a perfect example of the different philosophies here. dolphins approach is circa 1980's, big, strong, mauler type linemen, interior players, defense, etc... plug in a qb. atlanta approach is find a qb first, and then put then pieces around him. dolphins are still swimming in mediocrity and atlanta is on the verge of being a consistent super bowl contender.

[Spider-Dan]

You know who else had the philosophy of "find a QB first"?

Oakland
Cleveland
Tennessee
San Francisco
Houston

But somehow, I doubt you're going to bring up Vince Young or Brady Quinn when it comes to the importance of prioritizing a QB.

[Pappy13]

I can't believe this is even a discussion anymore. Henne has shown that he is not a very good QB by lackluster play and game losing mistakes and he has been consistent at it. Now everyone is bashing Tebow and he hasn't even had a chance to fail like Henne. Kinda like the Thigpen situation last year as far as I'm concerned....

Thigpen had his chances. Not a lot of them, but he had his chances and he failed miserably in the couple chances that he had to start games. Tebow has had some chances too and according to you he's done pretty well, but the reality is that he hasn't done much more than Henne has as a passer. The best plays that Tebow has had, he's done with his legs, not with his arm. I'm sorry, but no that's not what I want. We have running backs that can run, we don't need the QB to do that.

[JVides]

I can't believe this is even a discussion anymore. Henne has shown that he is not a very good QB by lackluster play and game losing mistakes and he has been consistent at it. Now everyone is bashing Tebow and he hasn't even had a chance to fail like Henne. Kinda like the Thigpen situation last year as far as I'm concerned....

And why is it that with such a limited sample size you and so many other Dolphin fans are so ready to discard Henne?  So we can start anew with another (essentially) rookie and watch him struggle, and then clamor for another rookie, and another, and another?  Especially when the league is filled with examples of players struggling through the early parts of their careers and ultimately succeeding?  Need I bring up Steve Young (3-8 TD/INT ratio in 1985, 8/13 in 1986 while with Tampa Bay), Troy Aikman ( 9/18 in 1989, 11/18 in 1990, 11/10 in 1991), John Elway (7/14 in 1983, 18/15 in 1984, 22/23 in 1985), Drew Brees (1/0 in 2001, 17/16 in 2002, 11/15 in 2003)?  I could go on forever, if you don't mind including guys that were not HOF guys but solid QBs (Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair, Rich Gannon, etc...)

All Henne has shown so far is that he's young.  In looking at other QBs that struggled, years 3 and 4 seemed to be when the light went on for many, so I'm reserving judgment for at least another year.  I'm certainly not going to clamor for other guys that will give us a few more years of growing pains!

[dolfan13]

I could go on forever, if you don't mind including guys that were not HOF guys but solid QBs (Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair, Rich Gannon, etc...)

you could go on way more than that if you look at the other side as well. that is the amount of qb's that struggled early on in their careers that actually ended up being crappy qb's.

[JVides]

^^^That is definitely true, but it does not change the fact that until year 3 or 4 many excellent QBs struggled, and many of the catastrophe QBs had fully melted down by this point (I'm thinking of Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russell).  You just knew those guys weren't going to pan out.

Henne, on the other hand, has numbers that are consistent with guys that got it (and others who never went on to be stars but also didn't flame out, either).  The point is we don't know yet, and openly pining for the next friggin' rookie is just going to set this team and its very talented defense back 3 more years.  I sure as hell know I don't want any part of a QB that has yet to go through the growing pains and, in addition, needs to still learn to be a pro-style QB (as in, learn how to drop back, read defenses, find the third or fourth option, throw with proper motion).  Tebow needs too much work, and I'd rather it not be the Dolphins that end up suffering from his growing pains.

Plus, have I mentioned he's a friggin' Gator?   

[tepop84]

Thigpen had his chances. Not a lot of them, but he had his chances and he failed miserably in the couple chances that he had to start games. Tebow has had some chances too and according to you he's done pretty well, but the reality is that he hasn't done much more than Henne has as a passer. The best plays that Tebow has had, he's done with his legs, not with his arm. I'm sorry, but no that's not what I want. We have running backs that can run, we don't need the QB to do that.

Thigpen was good against the Patriots.  Of course, I am sure you are basing this 100% off his performance vs. chicago where he went from 3rd string on sunday, to starting against a good defense on thursday, with a injured offensive line, and brandon marshall not playing half the game. Of course, Henne still had 3 or 4 games worse than Thigpens start against chicago.