Special Teams tonight

[MikeO]

We might be the ONLY team the new rules are hurting. Someone tell Gates he can take a knee. And Trusnick sucks, no wonder Cleveland didn't keep him. 2 PENALTIES on him that are killer. Get him off the field. Only reason he is on the team and he can't do his one job.

And a squib kick? WHY? Just pound it out of the endzone let them start at the 20!

[miamid45]

Sparano has to go....this coaching staff will never be in order while he's in charge!

[MikeO]

Gates ran one out from 8 yards deep again.....this is awful. Our coaching staff sucks or Gates is the dumbest man on the team. TAKE A KNEE!

[miamid45]

Agreed!

[Diehard_Dolfan]

We might be the ONLY team the new rules are hurting. Someone tell Gates he can take a knee. And Trusnick sucks, no wonder Cleveland didn't keep him. 2 PENALTIES on him that are killer. Get him off the field. Only reason he is on the team and he can't do his one job.

And a squib kick? WHY? Just pound it out of the endzone let them start at the 20!

I agree with most of this... Trusnick sucks that's for sure!    On Gates I agree to a point... I agree he should have taken a knee on a few of those kickoff's.  But, on one he brought out... it was a good return but Trusnick's penalty wiped that out.

[fyo]

5 yards deep is the new consensus, apparently. Deeper than that, you take a knee.

It all depends on hang time, of course...

[MikeO]

5 yards deep is the new consensus, apparently. Deeper than that, you take a knee.

It all depends on hang time, of course...

Taking a knee and starting at the 20 isn't a bad thing. Especially when your losing. Why risk NOT starting at the 20?

If the game is tied or your ahead and want to make something happen or play more loose with the lead, I get that. When trailing, take the ball at the 20 and don't put your offense in the hole potentially.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If I was a special teams coach...I would do a combo of surprise onside kicks and high hang time kicks aimed to land between the 5 the end zone.

Here is why.....  

If an onside kick is successful we get an extra possession.  If it is unsuccessful the opposing team gets the ball around the 50 yard line or 30 yards better field position than booting it out of the end zone.  For most teams the midfield is the hardest to defend and easiest to move the ball.  Plenty of room to maneuver.  Unlike in the redzone but not backed up like into your own 10. The easier areas to defend and harder areas to move.  

Once the team gets known for liking to do onside kicks the opposing teams will prepare for them.  Making them more risky but having the benefit that the blocking suffers.  Making it easier for the kicking team to get down field forcing the receiving team to fair catch the ball.  That is when I start aiming for the 5 yard line.  Force the team to start inside the 5 and blitz like crazy.   

[Diehard_Dolfan]

Taking a knee and starting at the 20 isn't a bad thing. Especially when your losing. Why risk NOT starting at the 20?

If the game is tied or your ahead and want to make something happen or play more loose with the lead, I get that. When trailing, take the ball at the 20 and don't put your offense in the hole potentially.

For Gates to bring out as many as he did... I'm pretty sure he was told to bring them out!  When Cobb brought that 108 yd kickoff out I'm sure people were saying what is he doing?  Especially when he almost went down around the 13 but he kept his balance and went the distance... this is why i'm sure coaches told Gates to bring them out.  You never know when a guy has that kind of speed!

[MikeO]

If I was a special teams coach...I would do a combo of surprise onside kicks and high hang time kicks aimed to land between the 5 the end zone.

Here is why.....  

If an onside kick is successful we get an extra possession.  If it is unsuccessful the opposing team gets the ball around the 50 yard line or 30 yards better field position than booting it out of the end zone.  For most teams the midfield is the hardest to defend and easiest to move the ball.  Plenty of room to maneuver.  Unlike in the redzone but not backed up like into your own 10. The easier areas to defend and harder areas to move.  

Once the team gets known for liking to do onside kicks the opposing teams will prepare for them.  Making them more risky but having the benefit that the blocking suffers.  Making it easier for the kicking team to get down field forcing the receiving team to fair catch the ball.  That is when I start aiming for the 5 yard line.  Force the team to start inside the 5 and blitz like crazy.   

I actually agree with this.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I actually agree with this.

In that case I need to rethink my position.   

[Doc-phin]

I would be ok with Gates giving a few returns a shot but he has to get moving faster or he is going to struggle even making it to the 20.  If he isn't showing speed in practice, don't bother in the game.

Mike was right to call out Trusnik.  You have to feel good that your blockers are disciplined and your returner is ball security conscious before you give him the ok to take a shot at it.  I don't think we have the discipline yet.  I just get the feeling that if it wasn't Trusnik it would be someone else getting a hold call or block in the back.

As far as onside kicks go.  I think you throw in a few here and there if your scouting tells you the opponent likes to get a jump on the play moving backward.  But only enough to show it on film and keep opponents honest.  If you fail, it is likely they get a field goal out of it at the least.  If their field goal kicker is struggling, you might be more inclined.  Again, it is all in the scouting report.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

As far as onside kicks go.  I think you throw in a few here and there if your scouting tells you the opponent likes to get a jump on the play moving backward.  But only enough to show it on film and keep opponents honest.  

That is the reactive position. My take is a bit different.... I keep kicking on side kicks until the other side proves they can recover it more than 65% of the time. 

As long as I can recover 35% or more I will give up the yards for the extra possessions. 

And keep in mind every week I am practicing onside kicks as a major portion of the special teams prep.  I am even drafting players based on that skill set.  Forcing the other team to make preparing for onside kicks a part of there prep to a much greater degree then they typically do.  Much the same way the wildcat made Dolphin opponents think about something different before each game in 2008. 

[Doc-phin]

That is the reactive position. My take is a bit different.... I keep kicking on side kicks until the other side proves they can recover it more than 65% of the time. 

As long as I can recover 35% or more I will give up the yards for the extra possessions. 

And keep in mind every week I am practicing onside kicks as a major portion of the special teams prep.  I am even drafting players based on that skill set.  Forcing the other team to make preparing for onside kicks a part of there prep to a much greater degree then they typically do.  Much the same way the wildcat made Dolphin opponents think about something different before each game in 2008. 

What happens when your roster is built for this and it doesn't work?  Then you are really screwed. 

This would be my main point against the concept and keep in mind I think you have some interesting points...

This strategy would be to compensate for a bad defense.  If you have a good defense, you are likely to receive punts in the middle of the field (reliably) and you have a decent shot at turnovers on the opponents side of the field, so why take that opportunity away from a strength of your team?  If you have a bad defense, you could use this as a tool but if it doesn't work you are likely giving up 7 points because you have a bad defense which makes this strategy too risky.

Therefore, I think you have to pick a choose a little more than you are suggesting.  However, I can't say that it wouldn't be wise to practice a lot more onside kicks with the rule change.  From what I have heard, teams are doing exactly that.  But it also means teams are practicing more onside defending.  It seems like your strategy ignores the fact that in order to recover an onside kick you have to let the ball travel 10 yards.  The onside kick is not a toss up in odds but is set up to be an advantage to the return team.  All they have to do is match up personnel and not jump the play backwards.  I don't see it being a big enough advantage to take away from a good defense.

[fyo]

When Cobb brought that 108 yd kickoff out I'm sure people were saying what is he doing?  Especially when he almost went down around the 13 but he kept his balance and went the distance... this is why i'm sure coaches told Gates to bring them out.  You never know when a guy has that kind of speed!

Just FYI, Cobbs was told NOT to bring those out. He did so against against the wishes of the coaching staff "because God spoke to him". No, I'm not kidding.

He also ran the wrong route on his touchdown catch...

Pretty good results, but not exactly great following instructions.