I don't think Sparano is the problem

[fyo]

you complaining about personal attacks is very funny!

?

[BigDaddyFin]

LOL, the fact that they are 1-11 at home in there last 12 is why they are losing their fan base.  To blame it on anything else would be retarded.

ha ha ha ha ha, the "gameday experience" isn't what lost the fan base. LOSING SEASONS did and not winning home games did!

Seriously people, come on!!!!

Now I know I'm absolutely 100% right.  And just because I feel like showing off, I'm going to.

We'll take a team that actually wins.  The Green Bay Packers.

Do they have a nightclub in their stadium?  No.
Do their fans suddenly stop going to games because of the weather?  No. 
Do they crow about being the only publicly owned sports franchise?  No.
Does the inside of their stadium look like a cocktail party? No
Does the ownership decide they're going to not play home games in December because well, it's just too damn cold?
No.
Does their stadium go for all this trendy shit?  No.  It's a tribute to football history in there. 

Do you want me to keep going?  I can.

[MikeO]

Now I know I'm absolutely 100% right.  And just because I feel like showing off, I'm going to.

We'll take a team that actually wins.  The Green Bay Packers.

Do they have a nightclub in their stadium?  No.
Do their fans suddenly stop going to games because of the weather?  No. 
Do they crow about being the only publicly owned sports franchise?  No.
Does the inside of their stadium look like a cocktail party? No
Does the ownership decide they're going to not play home games in December because well, it's just too damn cold?
No.
Does their stadium go for all this trendy shit?  No.  It's a tribute to football history in there. 

Do you want me to keep going?  I can.

They go to games because the team is a championship contender year in and year out. They had Farve and Rodgers 2 Hall of Fame QB's to watch week in and week out. They win and they have superstars. THATS WHY THEY GO! If the Packers started having celbs and a gold and green carpet and a water park next to the stadium PEOPLE WILL STILL GO! They wont STOP going to games 

Your stance is silly. Good Teams=Sold out Games   Bad Teams=Empty Stadiums End of story. End of debate

[Cathal]

Now I know I'm absolutely 100% right.  And just because I feel like showing off, I'm going to.

We'll take a team that actually wins.  The Green Bay Packers.

Do they have a nightclub in their stadium?  No.
Do their fans suddenly stop going to games because of the weather?  No. 
Do they crow about being the only publicly owned sports franchise?  No.
Does the inside of their stadium look like a cocktail party? No
Does the ownership decide they're going to not play home games in December because well, it's just too damn cold?
No.
Does their stadium go for all this trendy shit?  No.  It's a tribute to football history in there. 

Do you want me to keep going?  I can.

I think their point is that the reason why no one shows up is because the team loses. No one cares about the stadium if they win constantly. I wou
D tend to agree with that. Granted, I haven't been to a game since last season or maybe two years ago, but I didn't notice anything there that would turn me away other than the product on the field.

[BigDaddyFin]

Ok I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this. 

Cleveland Browns.  Bad Team.  Full stands. 
Buffalo Bills.  Bad Team.  Full stands. 

Nobody gives a shit about "the gameday experience."  They're there for a football game and they want to see their team kick somebody's ass. 

They don't request to play warm weather games in December.
They serve shitty beer and bad hot dogs.
The Tailgate parties start at about 8 in the morning regardless of how shitty the weather is.
No trendy shit. 

Yet the stadium is full because the team hasn't lost its fan base.  These teams are marginal, yet they continually beat my beloved Dolphins' asses. 

[MikeO]

Lets just say, if the Dolphins were 8-1 and had lets say a chance for home field in the AFC and in November and had an upcoming game with Baltimore lets say, do you think a fan would say....Miami vs Baltimore this week, Fins are 8-1 but I'm not going. I don't want to put up with that orange carpet nonsense and that Venus and Serena as owners really upsets me they might be in a box upstairs, screw that hollywood atmosphere, I'm not going to watch a BIG AFC game with my favorite team the Fins. I will stay home and watch

Do you think any rational person wouldn't GO TO THE GAME if they had the chance or had tickets?? SERIOUSLY? That is your stance, that this side-show stuff which has no effect on anything keeps people away. It's the horrible team that is keeping people away. If the Fins were 8-1 or whatever, just a good team....people would go.

[MikeO]

Ok I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this. 

Cleveland Browns.  Bad Team.  Full stands. 
Buffalo Bills.  Bad Team.  Full stands. 

Nobody gives a shit about "the gameday experience."  They're there for a football game and they want to see their team kick somebody's ass. 

They don't request to play warm weather games in December.
They serve shitty beer and bad hot dogs.
The Tailgate parties start at about 8 in the morning regardless of how shitty the weather is.
No trendy shit. 

Yet the stadium is full because the team hasn't lost its fan base.  These teams are marginal, yet they continually beat my beloved Dolphins' asses. 

The Bills havent had full stadiums in years. Hate to break it to ya. You think the Bills moved games to Canada for fun? Uh, no. Because nobody was going to Bills games IN BUFFALO!! And guess what, a couple more losses like today they won't be going to them in a month or so either!!!!

Cleveland has a football history that goes way further back than Miami. Plus they lost a team for god knows how many years. They have the fear of god in them the team could leave at anytime. It's a little different situation than Miami.

You just made 2 HORRIBLE examples to back up your weak stance.

[miamid45]

EXACTLY Mike O...fed up of all the excuses, even fans against fans, calling the ones who see this whole mess clearly "fairweather fans".  Any pro team that sucks this badly at home year in , year out will lose fan base.  We have sucked 11 out of 12 seasons....even the LIONS were having trouble drawing fans, until this season...HMMM?...why?  ..because they are 4-0!

The stadium sells out when they field a winning team with a legitimate superstar.  At this point we have none of the above

[BigDaddyFin]

They're actually perfect examples.  Nobody said anything about the stadium selling out.  I said they hadn't lost thier fan base inspite of their mediocrity, and they don't piss all over their own homefield advantage and make it worse. 

And since I used to live near Buffalo I know exactly why they moved 1 home game a year into Canada and it has more to do with the economy than anything else.

[MikeO]

They're actually perfect examples.  Nobody said anything about the stadium selling out.  I said they hadn't lost thier fan base inspite of their mediocrity, and they don't piss all over their own homefield advantage and make it worse. 

And since I used to live near Buffalo I know exactly why they moved 1 home game a year into Canada and it has more to do with the economy than anything else.

  give me a break. If the Bills were selling out home games, they don't move a game to Canada. They moved the game cause the team has sucked for a decade now and nobody goes to games in Buffalo anymore. They have trouble selling out. The economy sucks everywhere that excuse is so weak.

Moving a game to a "neutral field" in another country isn't pissing over your fanbase and losing home field advantage? Moving a game in DECEMBER vs the DOLPHINS into a dome and away from the snow isn't losing your homefield advantage?? HA HA HA H!! Sure, ok! Because that is what Buffalo did a few years back

[miamid45]

The Bills moved 8 games to Toronto for the greedy price of 80 million dollars.  All of this lining the pockets of Ralph Wilson, despite the Bills having sold out every game in the 2007 home season.  The biggest goal of this family run enterprise is to relocate the team to Canada, in order to avoid inheritance taxes.  In canada, inherited money is tax free.

[BigDaddyFin]

give me a break. If the Bills were selling out home games, they don't move a game to Canada. They moved the game cause the team has sucked for a decade now and nobody goes to games in Buffalo anymore. They have trouble selling out. The economy sucks everywhere that excuse is so weak.

Moving a game to a "neutral field" in another country isn't pissing over your fanbase and losing home field advantage? Moving a game in DECEMBER vs the DOLPHINS into a dome and away from the snow isn't losing your homefield advantage?? HA HA HA H!! Sure, ok! Because that is what Buffalo did a few years back

1.  Buffalo moving to Toronto is like Notre Dame playing in Chicago.  And no the two don't compare.  You're going from one cold weather stadium that takes about an hour and a half to get to to another cold weather stadium that takes an hour and a half to get to.
 
2. You keep mentioning selling out the stadium, and I'm talking about pissing on your fanbase.  More often than not, in spite of losing and Ralph Wilson, and snow, Buffalo sells out.  Cleveland sells out.  If you piss on your fanbase, you can win every game you play and nobody will show up.

3.  The Browns were lost and Buffalo moved games to Canada because of exactly the same things.  Owners who want new stadiums from a broke city at tax payer expense.  Cleveland and Buffalo have been shitholes since long before the current recession.  And yet they still fill or almost fill the goddamn stadiums.

4.  You mentioned in another post you want to give up 3 homegames for 3 successive games overseas.   Please tell me this was meant in sarcasm.  We've been discussing ad nauseum reasons this team doesn't draw and doesn't win at home, and you want to give away not 1 homegame to a nearby city, but 3 home games to other countries?

[MikeO]

1.  Buffalo moving to Toronto is like Notre Dame playing in Chicago.  And no the two don't compare.  You're going from one cold weather stadium that takes about an hour and a half to get to to another cold weather stadium that takes an hour and a half to get to.
 

4.  You mentioned in another post you want to give up 3 homegames for 3 successive games overseas.   Please tell me this was meant in sarcasm.  We've been discussing ad nauseum reasons this team doesn't draw and doesn't win at home, and you want to give away not 1 homegame to a nearby city, but 3 home games to other countries?

It's SKYDOME in Canada. Hence, DOME!!!!! When Miami played  Buffalo there in December the roof was closed. Once again....DOME!!

And I didn't say Miami should move 3 home games. I said the NFL as reported on CBS NFL TODAY said anyteam that does will get a financial incentive. Who that team is, don't know. I am not saying Miami should do it. But would I be shocked if they did, nope. Not with our owner

[BigDaddyFin]

It's SKYDOME in Canada. Hence, DOME!!!!! When Miami played  Buffalo there in December the roof was closed. Once again....DOME!!

And I didn't say Miami should move 3 home games. I said the NFL as reported on CBS NFL TODAY said anyteam that does will get a financial incentive. Who that team is, don't know. I am not saying Miami should do it. But would I be shocked if they did, nope. Not with our owner

Right.  Very good.  Dome.  Closed Roof.  Stadiums still equally accessible for vast majority of Bills fans.  And the fans still tailgate like crazy and make the drive in 30 degree weather or colder.  It doesn't keep them away. 

[MikeO]

Right.  Very good.  Dome.  Closed Roof.  Stadiums still equally accessible for vast majority of Bills fans.  And the fans still tailgate like crazy and make the drive in 30 degree weather or colder.  It doesn't keep them away. 

But its taking away the Bills "home field advantage" and pissing on your fanbase. What you are procaliming Ross is doing with his sideshow acts. 

Whatever. believe what you want.