The love and hate of Ireland

[Dave Gray]

Why the love for him?
Why the hate for him?

There's something about this guy that the league likes.  He's thought of as a smart guy.  He must know something in terms of talent evaluation or something.  He certainly has a reputation that keeps him employed.

I wonder what it is about him that makes him have such a keen propensity for self-preservation.  I know we are all up in arms over him still being here (and I get that).  I just wonder what it is he's done behind the scenes that's obviously impressing others.

I know that some of you will say he's a brown-noser, but I just don't believe that's enough to be it.

[BigDaddyFin]

I don't think I hate him.  He's had some hits, but he's had a lot of misses too.

1.  He embarrassed the franchise by asking a draftee's mother if she was a hooker. 
2.  I'm not sure he's competant (Although Speilman was far worse)
3.  This franchise has a history of Mediocre GM's going back to at least the early 80's. 
-Don Shula: Great coach, as a GM, not so much.  No good running backs (not that they got much of a chance), many flops defensively.
-Jimmy Johnson:  Great drafter and evaluator of defensive talent.  Had a penchant for picking bad running backs and recievers with glass knees.
-Dave Wannstedt: Passed on Drew Brees, couldn't find an outside linebacker (that defense's ONE weakness) and spent all his time trying to replace Tim Ruddy.
-Rick Speilman: Never met a draft pick he wouldn't trade for a crappy veteran
-Nick Saban: Mr. Indecision, also passed on Drew Brees, do we still have anybody from his draft classes?

Those are all the ones I can name.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It is really hard to judge as we don't know what the owner knows. 

E.g. maybe on draft day Ireland was pulling for Arian Foster in the 5th round and Sapano attitude was even if you draft him he will never play a down for me and told Ireland not to even call him as an UDFA.   

That is just an example, not saying it happened. 

But IF I WAS AN OWNER.  I would not offer my opinion as to who to draft, but I would take very, very careful notes about what the disagreements were and who wanted to draft who.   And then use that combined with the hindsight of how the players actually worked out, either with the team or elsewhere. 

[MikeO]

The hooker question he will never live down. That will follow him forever.

Jeff and his wife were BFF's with Tony and his wife, the way he saved his own ass and turned on Tony so quick isn't admirable. I understand Jeff was in a tough spot, but he could have done it a better way. YES, Tony needed to go he stunk. And YES, Jeff is entitled to look out for number one (himself) first. But he could have done it in a more respectable way.

While Ross is a rookie owner, Jeff isn't a rookie to this league. He grew up in this league and his entire family has been in this league forever. Jeff knew better.The problem isn't that Jeff wanted Tony gone (last year) but how the whole thing played out. Jeff could have convinced Ross to fire Tony (be a man about it) and life would have moved on just fine.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The hooker question he will never live down. That will follow him forever.

Really,    I consider it a non-issue. 

Lets see.  His mom was 15 years old, his dad 40.  By the time she was 18 she had three kids.  She had no employment, yet could afford to buy illegal drugs. 

I don't know why Ireland even had to ask, of course she was. 

[dolfan13]

i don't get the premise, you're the gm but people don't know whom you were responsible for drafting?

he is the general manager... his only existence is to control personnel in the building of the roster. it's his job.

[BigDaddyFin]

Really,    I consider it a non-issue. 

Lets see.  His mom was 15 years old, his dad 40.  By the time she was 18 she had three kids.  She had no employment, yet could afford to buy illegal drugs. 

I don't know why Ireland even had to ask, of course she was. 

The reason it was an issue is because it was MADE into an issue by the media.  It wouldn't shock me if 100 other GMs asked 100 other players the same question because we know these guys get background checked like crazy.  However, when it shows up on yahoo or on other news sites, and your name is attached to it, it becomes an embarrassment.

[MikeO]

i don't get the premise, you're the gm but people don't know whom you were responsible for drafting?

he is the general manager... his only existence is to control personnel in the building of the roster. it's his job.

Because of that idiot Parcells and how he had his hand in everything. I used to believe that Ireland was making all the picks, the more people "in the know" I talked to and the more information I got in recent months I can't kill Jeff like I used too. Jeff was a puppet in many ways under Parcells especially early on.

And it appears the Dolphins "BEST" draft the last 4 years was last years draft, the one Parcells wasn't around for. So, its a difficult situation to break down.  I mean if they fired Jeff tomorrow I wouldn't knock Ross for it one bit. But if Jeff stays, I can't really beat Ross up over that either right now.

[tepop84]

irelands problems is that he creates holes and then fills them with identical talent and people praise him.  Look at samson satele. trades him and fills it with grove, who gets cut after the next year.  Then people will point out that we got pouncey who is doing well, that's true, but center wouldn't have been a need if ireland didn't shit the bed before and they could have used the 1st round pick on an actual need, instead of pouncey.  they got rid of roth and then used a high pick to basically pick up a player similar to roth.

[Spider-Dan]

And it appears the Dolphins "BEST" draft the last 4 years was last years draft, the one Parcells wasn't around for.

The 2011 draft has produced exactly one starter so far (the first-rounder, mind you).  The only grades I can give that draft are "subpar" or "incomplete".

If I were going to evaluate the 2011 draft based on what I've seen, I'd say the '08 and '09 drafts are equal or better in quality.  If you include undrafted rookies (read: Bess) then I'd say '08 is the best draft we've had in the Trifecta era.

[Spider-Dan]

Really,    I consider it a non-issue. 

Lets see.  His mom was 15 years old, his dad 40.  By the time she was 18 she had three kids.  She had no employment, yet could afford to buy illegal drugs. 

I don't know why Ireland even had to ask, of course she was.

I think the entire thing was stupid.

If you say, "My dad owned a housecleaning service and my mom worked for my dad," it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that your mom was a maid.  Pimps don't exactly have receptionists.

[MikeO]

The 2011 draft has produced exactly one starter so far (the first-rounder, mind you).  The only grades I can give that draft are "subpar" or "incomplete".

If I were going to evaluate the 2011 draft based on what I've seen, I'd say the '08 and '09 drafts are equal or better in quality.  If you include undrafted rookies (read: Bess) then I'd say '08 is the best draft we've had in the Trifecta era.

With the short training camp few rookies were going to start this year. Aside from Long and Langford the 08 draft isn't anything great, include an undrafted Bess and it becomes OK. BUT, If Langford walks as a free agent in the coming weeks (which he might) that draft didn't produce much long-term.  The 09 draft aside from Vontae Davis is far worse. When you have a total bust in Rd 2 like Pat White and another bust in rd 3 in Patrick Turner. And a huge flop in Sean Smith in Rd 2 that isn't a good draft any way you slice it.

The 2011 draft of Pouncey, Thomas, Clay, Gates, and Jimmy Wilson looks far more promising than any draft in recent Miami history. And I don't even think its close. In 2012 Pouncey, Thomas, and Clay will all be starting. And Wilson might crack the starting lineup as well depending on who stays and goes.

[Spider-Dan]

Aside from Long and Langford the 08 draft isn't anything great, include an undrafted Bess and it becomes OK.

That's an All-Pro, and two starters (plus "the best special teams player on the team," whom you seem to have omitted).  If you're in the business of grading players in their first year playing, Henne looked better circa mid-2009 than any '11 rookie save Pouncey.

BUT, If Langford walks as a free agent in the coming weeks (which he might) that draft didn't produce much long-term.

I'd say a 3-year starter is "producing."  If MIA could get the same kind of contribution from other draftees, the Dolphins would be sitting pretty right now.

The 09 draft aside from Vontae Davis is far worse. When you have a total bust in Rd 2 like Pat White and another bust in rd 3 in Patrick Turner. And a huge flop in Sean Smith in Rd 2 that isn't a good draft any way you slice it.

Again, compared to your evaluation timeline of 2011, '09 produced two starting corners plus Hartline and Clemons.

The 2011 draft of Pouncey, Thomas, Clay, Gates, and Jimmy Wilson looks far more promising than any draft in recent Miami history.

Not really.  Smith looked good enough in '09 to win a starting job outright, which is far more than you can say for Wilson.  Gates is averaging a whopping 0.7 more yards per return than Nolan Carroll did last year (and both are well behind The Receiver That Shall Not Be Named).  Thomas is perpetually injured even in a secondary role, and among qualifying RBs, he is 48th out of 52 in YPC (with 0 TDs).  I'm still waiting for Miami to figure out exactly what Clay is supposed to do; he's not replacing Fasano but he has 0 rush attempts on the year.

The point is that lots of drafts look awesome when you're less than one year removed from them.  You are evaluating the 2011 players' potential and comparing it to the other draft years' results.

[MikeO]

Bottom line is I have seen more potential through 13 weeks in this draft class than I ever saw with the last 3 draft classes prior. That isn't hindsight either, people here have known my stances on "draftees"  in recent years. Not like I am changing my tune all of a sudden. This has been Miami's best draft since Parcells/Ireland/Sparano took over. And its not even close. I don't pass out high marks easily. You all have to realize that by now reading my posts. Of just our draft picks in recent years I have ripped almost since day 1 (so to speak), Merling, Henne, Smith, White, Turner, Misi, Jerry, among others in a viscous way. I wasn't high on these guys from the beginning  because they showed me little or nothing early on in their careers. And unfortunately they have proven me right as they have been utter disasters in the NFL. It's not like I have flipped flopped on this. So while I get you're timeline issue, I don't see it as an issue because I am basing this all on how I felt about these other guys in prior drafts at this moment as their rookie seasons were winding down.


The 2011 draft has the potential to be great from the very little we have seen thus far. None of those other drafts I said that about. Because I didn't feel it or believe it. This one I feel very strongly about. And as of now the 2011 draft will produce more contributors than 08,09, and 10'. Pouncey is a legit NFL center almost pro bowl caliber. Clay will be an impact player on offense for years. Clay is an H-Back and a match-up nightmare for opponents. Which we have seen when he has been healthy and on the field at times. Daniel Thomas (when healthy) had some very big games. Everyone raves about the Houston defense this year, when they were healthy Thomas went for over 100 on them.  Had 130+ all purpose yards vs the Browns in his first ever road start. 90 all purpose yards vs the Raiders. When healthy the guy has produced even in a time-share he has had many 50+ yard games sharing time with Bush and getting limited touches. If given a full slate of mini-camps and offseason weight training he will be an every down back that produces in this league. Gates will take time, I admit. He could be a bust. I don't think so, but he may be. I like him a lot though.  And Jimmy Wilson is a legit player in our secondary. With more upside than than any secondary player we have drafted NOT named Vontae Davis.

[Phishfan]

The 2011 draft has produced exactly one starter so far (the first-rounder, mind you). 

Starter is just a loose term in football anyway. Being a starter depends on what formation is used to start the game. Personell packages change so much in the game I hate the term starter except for select positions such as QB & lineman. I much prefer looking at their contributions. I like the addition of Clay and if Thomas can get over the hammy issues he and Bush should be a good duo.