If you don't like Tim Tebow as a person....who is the ideal sports role model?

[Phishfan]

Anyone who is a pacifist, did not believe in the war, or who believes human life is sacred and looking up to people whose job it is to take that life would have a hard time with the Tillman argument. -EK

You should study up on Tillman a bit. He was also opposed to the war in Iraq.

As for him being a role model, I can see it. Without knowing the guy, I can also see him trying to reject that moniker. he just didn't seem like one who wanted the attention thrust upon him from what I have seen.

[CF DolFan]

Phish ... would you please explain the "opposed to the war in Iraq" comment? I feel like I am missing something but I have to run and don't have time to go looking.

[Phishfan]

Basically, he joined the armed forces as a response to 9/11 and was in favor of the invasion of Afghanistan. Once he was in, the US also invaded Iraq where he was shipped initially. He had written and commented many times that he thought the Iraq war was illegal. Some think his death was murder rather than accidental friendly fire because of this (or some other unknown reason). He was after all their poster boy and he was speaking out (as best he could while being in the military) against their latest invasion.

[EKnight]

I know he was "against the war," and I didn't really want to get into this whole thing because I don't want to offend people, but I can't think of someone as a role model who is opposed to war, but joins his country's armed forces and travels overseas to kill others. What did he think, they were sending him there to plant daisies? Taking another's life is the ultimate "wrong" in my opinion. Voluntarily joining a group that does just that doesn't make someone a hero to me. And please don't give me the whole "eye for an eye" thing. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. -EK

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Every "sports role model" debate begins and ends with Pat Tillman. There are a lot of good guys in sports, Rodgers as you mentioned is one no doubt.

But "role model"...Pat Tillman. Until someone can give me another that surpasses him, he holds the #1 spot probably forever!

So we have two nominees: one is retired, one is dead.  My personal favorite is Jessie Owens. 

But still amoung active sports players.......Tim seems to be the best of the lot. 

[Phishfan]

What did he think, they were sending him there to plant daisies?

You are twisting things. He joined to fight in Afghanistan, a war he supported. Before he ever got there, we invaded a second country and entered a war he did not agree with. He knew exactly why he was going, but they threw a curve ball and started what many considered an unjust war.

[EKnight]

I'm not twisting anything. I have an absolute belief that taking another life is wrong, and I will never tell my children- "THAT guy is someone to look up to," if I know he went somewhere to do just that. This is not a argument you can win. It's my belief. Stop now. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

So then, if I have an absolute belief that women should have the right to legally available abortions, I can summarily dismiss Tebow as a role model, right?

[Dave Gray]

I think that Tebow is a fantastic role model.  He's too outwardly religious, in my opinion, and that is something that I, personally, consider a flaw, but it doesn't disqualify him.  He's so outstanding in every other aspect, in terms of how I want people to act that I have total respect for the guy.

None of us are perfect.  If your biggest noticible flaw is that you're too God-squad, I can look past it.  It's ultimately the things that you do that define you (I sound like Alfred from Batman), and while I don't agree with him on many views that are colored by religion, the aspects of his life that he shines a light on are pretty admirable.

[Phishfan]

I'm not twisting anything. I have an absolute belief that taking another life is wrong, and I will never tell my children- "THAT guy is someone to look up to," if I know he went somewhere to do just that. This is not a argument you can win. It's my belief. Stop now. -EK

Now you really are twisting things. You asked if Tillman thought he was going to pick daisies. I responded and even quoted you on that and explained how he was able to join the military but be against the Iraq war. The you somehow turned it into the idea that I am commenting on your beliefs. No wonder you end up in so many arguments here. Your comprehension is lacking.

[EKnight]

The daisies thing was clearly sarcasm. Explain to me who in his right mind joins the military without the belief he will be trained to kill someone. What part of that is lacking comprehension? To be OK with invading one land and killing its people but not others doesn't make his behavior something I'm ok with. -EK

[Dave Gray]

^ I think that the thought is that you're killing someone to prevent the death and suffering of many more in the long run.  It may be flawed, but it's the logic behind it.

[EKnight]

Yeah, I totally get that. I just don't agree. -EK

[Dave Gray]

^^ I can see that, however you might be taking a hard line stance when it's a much grayer issue.  Would you kill someone who was trying to kill multiple people in your family?  I certainly would.  I wouldn't say that I'm any less admirable because of it.

I see that it's not the same as war, but its logic is on the same spectrum.

[Dave Gray]

Side note:

I don't think he's the ideal guy in sports, necessarily, but props to Metta World Peach (formerly Ron Artest).  He got quite a reputation, but has turned into quite a role model.  While guys like Tebow are great for reaching some, not all can relate to him.  Artest is coming from a different place, but does a lot for his community, especially kids who are at risk of going down the wrong path.  Considering that he's had his own struggles, I find it admirable that he was able to reverse-field with his life.