If you don't like Tim Tebow as a person....who is the ideal sports role model?

[EKnight]

I am neither. I'm an average Joe who can't understand the rabid attacking of a guy who basically seems like a good person, quality NFL player, a winner, and someone who has been successful at seemingly everything he does, yet he's still lambasted by jealous anti-fans. I mean really, it wasn't enough to take over the thread on his actual playing ability, so you infiltrate this thread and minimize/attack his character as well? Of all the people to criticize for character issues, you pick Tebow? Nonsense. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

Perhaps you should reference the title of this thread to gain some insight as to why I mentioned Tebow in my original post.

Once again:  I said I thought Warner was a better role model, and your response was to post an essay in Tebow's defense.  What, now it's not enough that he's a good role model, he has to be the best one?

[Pappy13]

who is your ideal sports role model?

That's an oxymoron. There's no correct answer.

[EKnight]

I didn't say he was the best role model. Your argument for Warner was based mostly on his play- which was immaterial to this topic- and implied that somehow his display of faith was "better" (less in your face) than Tebow's, which is not true. I wasn't sticking up for Tebow, so much as I was correcting your error. If two guys have the same faith, display it in the same way as professionals, and their on the field play has been deemed "not part of the discussion," Warner isn't any more of a role model then Tebow is. You- not me- brought up the notion that somehow Tebow referencing his faith makes him less of a role model. Or were all of your posts about how much he speaks of it and your pics simply there as filler? -EK

[jtex316]

There is a fallacy in this entire thread that Sports Athletes = Role Models.

They are not.

Tim Tebow could be slapping and punching and kicking his wife / girlfriend behind closed doors. Tiger Woods may be secretly donating millions to the VA hospital. Kurt Warner may be a devil-worshipper.

We just don't (and never will) know who these people really are in their private, "behind-closed-doors" lives. Actually, that's exactly how I like it and I'm just a random person posting on an internet message board. I can't imagine what it's like for athletes trying to live private lives away from their public life...

There is no such thing as the ideal sports role model - yet as a society it seems as if we're always trying to find one. Like, today, with Tim Tebow. Tommrow it will be Sam Sebow and next year it will be Vic Vebow.

[Spider-Dan]

Your argument for Warner was based mostly on his play- which was immaterial to this topic- [...]

Wrong; it was based on him not having outside factors influence the front office into giving him a chance.

and implied that somehow his display of faith was "better" (less in your face) than Tebow's[...]

...which you could tell when I said that "both of them are card-carrying members of Team Jesus"?

If two guys have the same faith, display it in the same way as professionals, and their on the field play has been deemed "not part of the discussion," Warner isn't any more of a role model then Tebow is. You- not me- brought up the notion that somehow Tebow referencing his faith makes him less of a role model.

Nope.  I specifically said that even though both of them are in-your-face Christians, Warner didn't leverage that into a starting spot.  He pulled himself up by his bootstraps, instead of an army of zealots badgering his front office into giving him a chance.  What's more, he made his way into the NFL by grinding it out in the Arena League and working in the offseason to feed his family, as opposed to having opportunities handed to him on a silver platter.

So yeah, if you ask me who the better role model is (while totally ignoring on-the-field results), even when choosing between two Soldiers of Christ, I'm going to take the blue collar guy who worked his way up from the bottom instead of the high-profile first-round pick that had his roster spot and starting job simply bestowed upon him.

[EKnight]

When did Tebow ever leverage anything? Again, you're holding fans' and media opinion against him. And talk about working your way up- Tebow was told he'd NEVER make it as an NFL QB. Even now he is still hearing it. Working past that to earn a spot on an NFL roster must be meaningless. Working your way past the second string guy in preseason, in spite of what SpiderDan claims, must be meaningless. In fact, everything that Tebow has accomplished when the "experts" said he couldn't was working his way up. Why does Warner get kudos for that but Tebow doesn't? This comes down- once again- to some untold hatred you harbor for him. It's just silly to keep arguing it. Every single point you make about Warner can be made for Tebow and vice versa. You can't argue that Warner is better. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

When did Tebow ever leverage anything? Again, you're holding fans' and media opinion against him. And talk about working your way up- Tebow was told he'd NEVER make it as an NFL QB.

This speaks precisely to my point.

Like many option QBs, Tebow was told he would never make it as a QB in the NFL.  Many of them, like Antwaan Randle-El, Josh Cribbs, and Julian Edelman were forced to convert to other positions in order to play in the NFL.  However, because of his media stardom, Tebow could simply insist that he wasn't going to play any position but QB... and still get drafted in the first-round at that position.

Think about that:  why would someone who is expected NOT to make it as a QB be drafted in the first-round at that position?  It's hard to argue that Tebow has worked against all odds when he was drafted higher than than the majority of QBs in the league.

Working past that to earn a spot on an NFL roster must be meaningless.

What "work" did he have to do to earn a spot?  I challenge you to name the last time that a first-round pick was cut before their second season.

Working your way past the second string guy in preseason, in spite of what SpiderDan claims, must be meaningless.

He was second, then demoted to third, then half-promoted to a tie (?!) for second.

Every single point you make about Warner can be made for Tebow and vice versa.

Really?  How many years did Tebow spend in the Arena League?  How many NFL teams did he have to try out for as a walk-on?

Give me a break.

[EKnight]

Your arguments are really getting all over the place. What do other first round picks have to do with Tebow as a role model? Warner wasn't good enough to make the NFL to start with, so he had to play elsewhere, and that is a GREAT feel good story, but it has to do with morals/ethics/role modeling how? And it negates Tebow's position as a role model in what way? Actually, what does any of your rambling have to do with that? Tebow never said he refused to play another position. It's not his fault where he was drafted or what position he was expected to play. What- you expect a college QB to say, "nah coach I don't want to play my natural position." You're STILL holding things his coaches, media, and fans said/did against him. How is that his fault? You're just arguing to argue at this point. -EK

[MikeO]

The world of sports could use a few more Tim Tebow's these days. I'm no bible thumper myself by any means and he does wear his religion a bit too much on his sleeve, but if that's the worst thing you can say about the guy, then he is doing pretty damn good if you ask me.

[Dave Gray]

I joke about Tebow a lot, but I saw a behind the scenes thing where he was singing "My God is an awesome God" while he was mic'ed up and going onto the field.  That's just creepy, I'm sorry.

As far as the way he treats his teammates, his opposing players, fans, and children, he's perfect.  I envy that aspect of him.  He's a very nice, charitable guy.  I just get creeped out that he's so fully about Jesus with every waking breath and thought.  It wigs me out.  Even if I believed in Jesus, that would still creep me out.

[Spider-Dan]

What do other first round picks have to do with Tebow as a role model?

It's like every point I make to you is in a vacuum.

The point is not what other first-round picks were doing.  The point is that as a first-round pick, Tebow was handed a roster spot from day 1.  And he was picked in the first round despite "everyone" saying that he would never be a successful QB in the NFL.  This doesn't sound anything remotely like earning your way on to a team.

Warner wasn't good enough to make the NFL to start with, so he had to play elsewhere,[...]

When you say he wasn't good enough to make the NFL, do you mean that he was told he did not have the tools to be a successful QB in the NFL?  Because that sounds like what Tebow was told, yet he was drafted in the first round.

and that is a GREAT feel good story, but it has to do with morals/ethics/role modeling how?

It doesn't have anything to do with morals or ethics (in which Tebow and Warner are both just fine).  It DOES have to do with role modeling in the sense that Warner had to work a lot harder than the big name football factory college players who were handed a roster spot.

Tebow started his NFL career on second base and you're giving him credit for hitting a double.

And it negates Tebow's position as a role model in what way?

Again with this nonsense...

Please explain how saying that Warner is a BETTER role model means that Tebow's standing is negated?

[CF DolFan]

I joke about Tebow a lot, but I saw a behind the scenes thing where he was singing "My God is an awesome God" while he was mic'ed up and going onto the field.  That's just creepy, I'm sorry.

As far as the way he treats his teammates, his opposing players, fans, and children, he's perfect.  I envy that aspect of him.  He's a very nice, charitable guy.  I just get creeped out that he's so fully about Jesus with every waking breath and thought.  It wigs me out.  Even if I believed in Jesus, that would still creep me out.

I'm confused. Had he been singing "Enter Sandman" then he would have been a better person? There are quite a lot of people who only listen to Christian music.

[BigDaddyFin]

Ideal sports role model?  If I can only pick one guy?   Maybe Johnny Bench.

My own personal past is closer to that of Babe Ruth.  I always admired Lou Gehrig's longevity. 

[EKnight]

Please explain how saying that Warner is a BETTER role model means that Tebow's standing is negated?

"See, while both of them are card-carrying members of Team Jesus, Warner didn't have an army of fans demanding that his coach allow him to play, and he never had anyone trying to excuse his subpar play by referencing his team's record. He earned his way on to an NFL team, he played flawlessly when he got his shot, and when he was cast to the curb with STL and NYG, he did it all over again at ARI."

This, like nearly ALL of your posts, implies that Tebow's "standing" should be negated. Because of fans demanding his coach play him, that somehow discounts him?

"And as far as his fans go, that's the point: that is an off-the-field factor that contributed to his success, not unlike if he happened to be Phil Simms' son or came from a rich family.
But he wasn't being propped up because of his beliefs, which is more than I can say for Tebow."

This post implies that Tebow's quality as a role-model should be negated because he's no better than someone who succeeded because of lineage.

"Say, if I show a clip in which Michael Vick does not drown a dog he was using for pitfighting, does that prove he's never done it?"

Really? Drawing some warped comparison to Vick- a felon- doesn't somehow imply an attack on Tebow's character?

"Nope. I specifically said that even though both of them are in-your-face Christians, Warner didn't leverage that into a starting spot. He pulled himself up by his bootstraps, instead of an army of zealots badgering his front office into giving him a chance. What's more, he made his way into the NFL by grinding it out in the Arena League and working in the offseason to feed his family, as opposed to having opportunities handed to him on a silver platter."

"So yeah, if you ask me who the better role model is (while totally ignoring on-the-field results), even when choosing between two Soldiers of Christ, I'm going to take the blue collar guy who worked his way up from the bottom instead of the high-profile first-round pick that had his roster spot and starting job simply bestowed upon him."

Again with the leverage thing. Tebow never leveraged ANYTHING. He specifically said he'd play whatever position his coaches asked of him to help the team. Implying someone's success was handed to them on a silver platter absolutely implies that their "standing" should be negated. If his success was handed to him on a silver platter, it clearly negates any work he did to get where he is at.


Really? How many years did Tebow spend in the Arena League? How many NFL teams did he have to try out for as a walk-on?

Yet another comment that implies because Warner didn't immediately make an impact, and took a harder road to get there he's somehow better. What, because Tebow didn't go to the Arena League, his value as a role model is somehow diminished?

EVERY post you've made does exactly what you just asked- you aren't content saying Warner is a better role model, you have to imply that he is better because Tebow is somehow flawed. Of course YOU don't see it that way, but almost every person in this thread- even Mike, who disagrees with me on pretty much EVERYTHING- has stated that you're off base on this, but WE are all wrong, and YOU must be right. One last thing- Warner wasn NOT, in fact, cut by the Giants. He CHOSE to void the last year of his contract and go to Arizona. Check your facts. Just like everything else in this thread, you're incorrect about that. -EK