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Author Topic: The Math: To onside kick?  (Read 4029 times)
jtex316
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2011, 03:02:44 pm »

Dave I have no idea how you're coming up with a 50% chance of stopping a team for a three and out. Are you saying that, for any drive, a team has a 1 out of 2 shot of stopping them for a "3-and-out"? So you're saying that 1/2 of all drives are 3-and-outs?

Also - a 50% chance of driving the field with no timeouts on any drive?

98% came from the opposite of 2% (converting a onside kick, without taking into account driving and kicking a FG). But obviously that is wrong as that website I found stats 1 out of 4:78 for onside kick conversions in the last 10 years.
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Brian Fein
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2011, 03:28:31 pm »

on any given play, you have a 50% chance to get 10+ yards or less than 10 yards.

You have to get less than 10 yards on three consecutive plays.  In addition, you have to get less than 10 yards in the sum of three plays.  At most, the chances of getting a first down should be 12.5%

But, this whole probability crap is meaningless because it assumes that the offense and defense are the same - NFL average.  I'd give the Packers a great chance of getting a first down in 3 plays against the Rams, where I'd give the Colts a terrible chance against the 49ers.

You can't base decisions on probability.  You have to consider the circumstances as well.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2011, 03:50:12 pm »

Dave I have no idea how you're coming up with a 50% chance of stopping a team for a three and out. Are you saying that, for any drive, a team has a 1 out of 2 shot of stopping them for a "3-and-out"? So you're saying that 1/2 of all drives are 3-and-outs?

At end of game situations, I think so, yes.  ...at least close to 50%.  When a team is trying to burn three TOs, they don't play the same style as with their regular offense.  Of course stopping a team 3-and-out is more difficult in the middle of a game, but at the end, one team is more likely to run and you can bring up your safeties, because there is absolutely no threat of a deep ball.  It's almost like running a goalline defense at midfield.

Quote
Also - a 50% chance of driving the field with no timeouts on any drive?
 

"Driving the field" in that situation would only be 20-30 yards and you'd have 4 downs to do it, since you aren't going to punt.  I think that it's also about 50-50.

Quote
98% came from the opposite of 2% (converting a onside kick, without taking into account driving and kicking a FG). But obviously that is wrong as that website I found stats 1 out of 4:78 for onside kick conversions in the last 10 years.

This is a misunderstanding of the question, so I will let it go.
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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2011, 03:51:34 pm »

You can't base decisions on probability.  You have to consider the circumstances as well.

Yes, I agree.  ...but teams aren't THAT different.  The concepts are probably sound.  You do have to take circumstances into effect, of course.  I'm speaking more in generalities.
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 02:31:55 pm »

9 times out of 10, I kick away and play defense. 

2A, there's a time and a place for this, but you have to make sure you have the matchup.

2B, that's part of the gamble in 2A.  If you're defense is playing lights out, it's worth a shot.
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2011, 02:38:59 pm »

2A and 2B are not a decision. 

It's either 1 or 2.  ...but if you choose 2, there are two seperate parts.
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BigDaddyFin
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 05:12:43 pm »

for the most part since I have all my timeouts, I kick deep.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 08:48:17 am »

on any given play, you have a 50% chance to get 10+ yards or less than 10 yards.
I don't understand this math.

Is this like saying I have a 50% chance to win the lottery, because either I win it or I don't?
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