Brandon Marshall

[MikeO]

MikeO, since you claimed that Jason Allen being cut "proved" that you were right about him sucking, I presume that Brandon Marshall making the Pro Bowl "proves" that you were wrong about him sucking?

If not, what would it take for you to be proven wrong?  Consecutive Pro Bowls?  All-Pro?  MVP?

No, because someone has to go to this glorified popularity contest and with Andre Johnson being injured and no Peyton Manning to give  Reggie Wayne a legit shot, it was a down year in the AFC for WR's. I'm not saying Marshall is god awful, but he didn't have a special year. 76 balls and 6 TD's isn't great. It's a solid year. Factor in the drops and its nothing special to be honest.

Yes, an ALL PRO year at WR for the Dolphins would make me say I was wrong. 1 All Pro year in Miami. Just one! UNO! 1. That's all.

[Spider-Dan]

So all he has to do is be the single best WR in the league to earn his paycheck?  Well, no, that's incorrect... he could drop as low as second-best in the league to satisfy you.  Third, however, means he is a bust.

You have a serious issue with expectations management.  If Marshall only makes the Pro Bowl (only the Pro Bowl!) every year going forward, he will have more than justified his acquisition and contract.

These kind of fan expectations are insane.  Jake Long makes the Pro Bowl literally every year in Miami, makes an All-Pro, and you still have people saying he was a bad pick.  What the hell can you expect from a player?

[EKnight]

You didn't catch the thread with Mike saying he should be traded too?

Not a bad idea at all. But he might be so damaged I don't know what is value is. With the back issues and now the biceps (to go along with the shoulder and knee issues that never really healed)....I'm thinking he might start 2012 on PUP and misses 6 games. Especially for him in a contract year. He won't want to look bad next year, so he will want the extra rest.

IF we can trade him and move up, I am all for it. I just don't think his value is anything special right now. He is really really beaten up right now.

-EK

[tubba marxxx]

Disclaimer:  I'm not attacking Mike-O


That said, he makes a lot of valid points most times.  However, his views on Jake Long and Brandon Marshall and what he expects from them and seemingly "what have you done for me lately" attitude leaves me scratching my head sometimes.

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, and one more thing:

No, because someone has to go to this glorified popularity contest and with Andre Johnson being injured and no Peyton Manning to give  Reggie Wayne a legit shot, it was a down year in the AFC for WR's.

Are you actually claiming that because Wayne didn't have a superstar QB throwing him the ball, his failure to make the Pro Bowl doesn't count?

Do you realize how absurd that sounds when you are currently bashing Marshall for failing to reach the Pro Bowl with Chad Henne and barely making it to the Pro Bowl with Matt Moore?  While you insist that Marshall must make the All-Pro team with the current stable of Dolphin QBs in order to justify his salary?

Give me a break.

[MikeO]

Disclaimer:  I'm not attacking Mike-O


That said, he makes a lot of valid points most times.  However, his views on Jake Long and Brandon Marshall and what he expects from them and seemingly "what have you done for me lately" attitude leaves me scratching my head sometimes.

It's a what have you done for me lately league, nobody cares about what a player has done 3 years ago.

This is also a "salary cap" league and those 2 guys are some of the highest paid at their positions, the bar is raised a little higher for them because they take up so much of our salary cap. If they can't perform at a high level and justify their contract, we can get "similar" play a lot cheaper from someone else.

My comment on Jake is, get rid of him a year too early rather than a year too late OR be careful and don't lock him up long-term because he has the career path of Tony Boselli it looks like. The man is the walking wounded!!!! And his level of play slipped this year as well, the injuries are clearly taking its toll.

AND FOR THE RECORD: I said if it helps Miami move up in the draft to get a QB I said trade Jake. I'm not sitting here saying we should trade him for a 4th or 5th. I said if we can move up in the draft and get a franchise QB, yeah I would move him as part of a package.

[MikeO]

Oh, and one more thing:
Are you actually claiming that because Wayne didn't have a superstar QB throwing him the ball, his failure to make the Pro Bowl doesn't count?

Do you realize how absurd that sounds when you are currently bashing Marshall for failing to reach the Pro Bowl with Chad Henne and barely making it to the Pro Bowl with Matt Moore?  While you insist that Marshall must make the All-Pro team with the current stable of Dolphin QBs in order to justify his salary?

I am just saying 76 receptions and 6 TD's isn't a "special" year and he isn't the 2nd best WR in the league behind ONLY Calvin Johnson as someone is claiming, that's the absurd part. It's a good year by Marshall, but it ain't anything special. He has dropped a ton of TD's, lost us games which when you factor in with only 76 receptions and the 6 TD's makes the year nothing to write home about.

It's a down year for AFC WR's. And hate to break it to ya, Henne/Moore as much as they suck look like hall of famers compared to Painter.

[MikeO]

These kind of fan expectations are insane.  Jake Long makes the Pro Bowl literally every year in Miami, makes an All-Pro, and you still have people saying he was a bad pick.  What the hell can you expect from a player?

Because we should have taken a Franchise QB in Matt Ryan!!! That's why!! We haven't had a decent QB since the Marino years. Matt Ryan was there for Miami and they passed on him.

You win in this league because of QB's!! That's why it will FOREVER be a bad pack! Jake Long can go to Canton when he retires, it's still a bad pick. Saying its a bad pick isn't a knock on Long, its a knock on the front office for not realizing you don't win Super Bowls because of left tackles. You win because of QB's.

[MikeO]

So all he has to do is be the single best WR in the league to earn his paycheck?  Well, no, that's incorrect... he could drop as low as second-best in the league to satisfy you.  Third, however, means he is a bust.

You have a serious issue with expectations management.  If Marshall only makes the Pro Bowl (only the Pro Bowl!) every year going forward, he will have more than justified his acquisition and contract.

First off, the pro bowl is a joke. Half the players voted in don't go. Most of it is based on reputation and is a popularity contest. I don't get all excited because a guy was voted in a as a backup to the pro bowl. Just means he his a backup WR taking only half the league into account. It means nothing. Literally nothing.

Second, if you are paid like a Top 2 or 3 WR, then expecting numbers like a Top 2 or 3 WR isn't absurd.

Third, Since Marshall has been in Miami he has led the league in drops, Miami's offense finished near the bottom of the league last year and is in the bottom 3rd of the league this year. We could have done that without him is the point. I don't think he has earned his contract since being in Miami. Obviously you disagree.  Marshall has been a headache off the field and on the field, nothing special at all

[EKnight]

1. No one ever claimed that he was 2nd in the league to Calvin Johnson.

In fact, almost every guy on your list of "any day of the week" (except Calvin) has fewer yards or receptions and only about 2 more TD's than Marshall this year.

You made an outlandish list of guys "better" than Marshall; I claimed he was as good or better than them.
2.

First off, the pro bowl is a joke. Half the players voted in don't go. Most of it is based on reputation and is a popularity contest. I don't get all excited because a guy was voted in a as a backup to the pro bowl. Just means he his a backup WR taking only half the league into account. It means nothing. Literally nothing.

Second, if you are paid like a Top 2 or 3 WR, then expecting numbers like a Top 2 or 3 WR isn't absurd.

Third, Since Marshall has been in Miami he has led the league in drops,

Wow, all kinds of things wrong here. How can "most of it" be based on popularity, when 2/3 of the votes (IE, "most of it") comes from the players and coaches- the same players and coaches who regularly vote players like Romo, Vick, and TO as "overrated," yet they still make the Pro Bowl? That's based on their play, not their popularity or likeability.

"Like a top 2 or 3 receiver." So, until he becomes the third best receiver in the league, he's not good enough??

Your fixation on drops is comical. First you list a guy as "better" who has dropped more balls, then you fail to acknowledge that Brandon is targeted far more than many guys in the league. Stats from last year show that, yes, he is in the bottom half of the league, but in pretty good company (dropping 13.13% of what's thrown to him), ahead of Steve Johnson (13.68%), Miles Austin (13.75%), Jordy Nelson (14.29%), Steve Breaston (14.55%), Pierre Garcon (15.29%), Steve L. Smith (17.86%), and DeSean Jackson (19.67%). Even Wes Welker dropped 13.08%- just about the same as Marshall.

Even if you were correct about his drops causing some sort of team disaster, it's STILL illogical to make an issue out of this. He dropped a ton of balls in Denver (either led the league or was second across the time he was there), so Miami knew what they were getting when they signed him. You can't go back now and fault a guy for being exactly who he was when we got him. I never heard one word from anyone when Miami siged Marshall that he was a bad investment or he had slippery hands. Everyone was all, "We got a number one receiver! Good job!" Well, it's BS to change your tune now to, "We got a guy who drops a lot of balls, just like we knew he was going to, so shame on him for not changing."

3.

Marshall has been a headache off the field and on the field, nothing special at all

  Really? what off the field actions have hurt the team? He got stabbed by his wife? Did that cause Thomas to pull a hammie? Did it blow out Henne's shoulder or allow the defense to get smoked by New England in week one? Or when he talked about getting tossed against the Jets. Maybe that's what you meant. Let's see...109 receiving yards that game, didn't get tossed, was the only player who showed up on offense OR defense. Did that cause some sort of team meltdown? How, exactly, have his off the field "issues" you keep mentioning caused problems for anyone but you? And on the field, he's "nothing special at all"? In the history of the team with as many great seasons as Clayton and Duper had, he's already 5th on the list of all time single season receiving yards with a shot at 4th, and is only the fourth guy EVER to post back to back 1000 yards seasons for the team. That goes beyond Pro Bowls or drops or anything you're going to argue about.

You love to go on and on when you think you're right. The entire board (and the NFL as a whole who voted him in the Pro Bowl) all say you're mistaken. How about show some humility and admit when you're wrong?

Still awaiting your lame justification to this one:

How does his team's previous playoff run have anything to do with his current regular season performance? Anyone on the planet will tell you- since you obviously missed it- that he stunk in the regular season both years, and caught lightning in a bottle once the playoffs started. Highest TD total, highest QB rating, highest completion %, highest yardage total, highest rushing TD total of his career, but it's his worst year?? Hey, Maurice Jones-Drew and L. McCoy are leading the league in rushing, but their teams are not making the playoffs either. Guess it's THEIR worst year as well, right? You're right, you CAN'T make this stuff up. -EK

-EK

[Pappy13]

Disclaimer:  I'm not attacking Mike-O

That said, he makes a lot of valid points most times.  However, his views on Jake Long and Brandon Marshall and what he expects from them and seemingly "what have you done for me lately" attitude leaves me scratching my head sometimes.

He just LOVES to get under people's skin. What's even more amusing is when he does, he gets into a pissing match with them and then proceeds to call them out for taking the thread off track.  This IS MikeO.  Gotta love 'em (at least until the admins can fix the "ignore" functionality).

[dolfan13]

if you paired any of those "stud" receivers with what miami has trotted out in terms of qb play, their numbers would drop significantly.

moore is > than henne, hence the improvement in marshall's numbers in the second half of the season.

improve the qb even more (no pun intended), and marshall's numbers will continue to go up.

[Doc-phin]

Brandon Marshal is the shit and I hope he smokes Revis all damn day on Sunday!

I am damn glad to have the guy on our team.  He has had to play under some fairly shitty circumstances (bad QB play and O-line issues) and I am impressed that he seems to have really matured.  Now there is always a chance he could regress at some point but so far, so good.

On top of that, we should start a thread for my new man love for Bush.  His hurdle over that guy in New England was SICK!  I love having actual playmakers on our team for a change and you won't hear me bitch about it.  It blows my mind how people can complain about the best players on your team.  If you want to complain, complain about how Misi isn't living up to his 2nd round draft status or something.  Better yet, complain about someone who shouldn't be on the team. 

[MikeO]

He just LOVES to get under people's skin. What's even more amusing is when he does, he gets into a pissing match with them and then proceeds to call them out for taking the thread off track.  This IS MikeO.  Gotta love 'em (at least until the admins can fix the "ignore" functionality).

The first sentence of my post was...."i know I am in the minority opinion here".....i came out stating I didn't expect many if anyone to agree with me. I wasn't looking to change anyone's mind. I just stated my opinion, I knew most if not everyone would disagree and I was and am fine with it.   

[MikeO]

1. No one ever claimed that he was 2nd in the league to Calvin Johnson.
You made an outlandish list of guys "better" than Marshall; I claimed he was as good or better than them.
2.
Wow, all kinds of things wrong here. How can "most of it" be based on popularity, when 2/3 of the votes (IE, "most of it") comes from the players and coaches- the same players and coaches who regularly vote players like Romo, Vick, and TO as "overrated," yet they still make the Pro Bowl? That's based on their play, not their popularity or likeability.

"Like a top 2 or 3 receiver." So, until he becomes the third best receiver in the league, he's not good enough??

Your fixation on drops is comical. First you list a guy as "better" who has dropped more balls, then you fail to acknowledge that Brandon is targeted far more than many guys in the league. Stats from last year show that, yes, he is in the bottom half of the league, but in pretty good company (dropping 13.13% of what's thrown to him), ahead of Steve Johnson (13.68%), Miles Austin (13.75%), Jordy Nelson (14.29%), Steve Breaston (14.55%), Pierre Garcon (15.29%), Steve L. Smith (17.86%), and DeSean Jackson (19.67%). Even Wes Welker dropped 13.08%- just about the same as Marshall.

Even if you were correct about his drops causing some sort of team disaster, it's STILL illogical to make an issue out of this. He dropped a ton of balls in Denver (either led the league or was second across the time he was there), so Miami knew what they were getting when they signed him. You can't go back now and fault a guy for being exactly who he was when we got him. I never heard one word from anyone when Miami siged Marshall that he was a bad investment or he had slippery hands. Everyone was all, "We got a number one receiver! Good job!" Well, it's BS to change your tune now to, "We got a guy who drops a lot of balls, just like we knew he was going to, so shame on him for not changing."

3.   Really? what off the field actions have hurt the team? He got stabbed by his wife? Did that cause Thomas to pull a hammie? Did it blow out Henne's shoulder or allow the defense to get smoked by New England in week one? Or when he talked about getting tossed against the Jets. Maybe that's what you meant. Let's see...109 receiving yards that game, didn't get tossed, was the only player who showed up on offense OR defense. Did that cause some sort of team meltdown? How, exactly, have his off the field "issues" you keep mentioning caused problems for anyone but you? And on the field, he's "nothing special at all"? In the history of the team with as many great seasons as Clayton and Duper had, he's already 5th on the list of all time single season receiving yards with a shot at 4th, and is only the fourth guy EVER to post back to back 1000 yards seasons for the team. That goes beyond Pro Bowls or drops or anything you're going to argue about.

You love to go on and on when you think you're right. The entire board (and the NFL as a whole who voted him in the Pro Bowl) all say you're mistaken. How about show some humility and admit when you're wrong?

Still awaiting your lame justification to this one:

-EK

You could have written that you just disagree with me and saved yourself a lot of time. Wrote a lot there and I ain't gonna break it down point by point, sorry.  You ain't changing my mind. I ain't changing yours. Deal with it!