My problem with my fellow Dolphin fans

[Spider-Dan]

Jeff Fisher wanted full control of personnel, meaning that Ireland would have NO say.

You're splitting hairs.  At the end of the day, you can always frame it such that if one person has the final say, the other person has NO say.  Fisher's problem was that he wanted to have the final say, while Ross wanted Ireland to have it.

You don't really believe that Ireland made the decision to get rid of Marshall without talking to Philbin about it do you?

I believe that if Ireland wanted to keep Marshall, Marshall would still be on the team, regardless of Philbin's opinion.

But even if it was Ireland's decision, he still has to make those decisions based on where the football team is headed.

Given that Ireland is the person who decides where the football team is headed (from player decisions to coaching hires), that statement is fairly redundant.

[masterfins]

I get what you are saying Phish, sometimes I feel the same way.

[Pappy13]

You're splitting hairs.  At the end of the day, you can always frame it such that if one person has the final say, the other person has NO say.  Fisher's problem was that he wanted to have the final say, while Ross wanted Ireland to have it.
I believe that if Ireland wanted to keep Marshall, Marshall would still be on the team, regardless of Philbin's opinion.
Given that Ireland is the person who decides where the football team is headed (from player decisions to coaching hires), that statement is fairly redundant.

Now you have Ireland hiring the coaches too? He didn't make suggestions to the owner and together they decided? I see. So Ireland decides everything now. I suppose we should blame Ireland for Ross being the owner too then? I'm sure it was Ireland that told Ross to buy the Dolphins and give him all the power. Ross is just a puppet head. Gotcha.

[Spider-Dan]

Pappy, if you want to bring Ross into the picture, then he technically has the final say on any decision he wants, because he can fire anyone whose decisions he does not agree with.  Is this really the point you want to make?

Ireland's job is the general manager.  The general manager, not the head coach, is responsible for personnel acquisition.  Now, can Philbin, or Mike Sherman, or the head of scouting, or Jake Long have input as to the personnel decisions?  Sure.  But at the end of the day, final personnel decisions are made by Jeff Ireland, just like final game coaching decisions are made by the head coach (with input from others).

So if Marshall was traded, it's because Jeff Ireland decided that he'd rather get rid of him than adjust his plans to the personnel he has already spent considerable resources acquiring.  Presumably, if your new head coach is unable to make use of the best offensive weapon and only Pro Bowl skill-position player on your team, this is something that should have come out when you interviewed him for the job.

This is not a Joe Philbin decision; it is a Jeff Ireland decision.  There is no way to get around that.

[Landshark]

There are fans on this site who love the player who was traded and view the trade as an awful move.  They have a right to express their opinion as, in their eyes, this is a regression for the team they love.

There are fans on this site who never bought into Marshall and are glad he's gone.

There are people, ones like me, who like the guy...but generally think he's a distraction.  I like the new winds blowing and I'm excited to see what happens next.

And there are ones like me who realize that despite Marshall being a distraction off the field, he was one of the best receivers in the league on it and was one of the best things this offense had going for it.  Maybe the only thing.  Getting rid of him was a big mistake, no matter how you slice it.

[DZA]

I agree that the core of this site are not extremists Dave, but look at the Marshall thread more closely. There are people I don't even recognize as members as well as people who hardly post making some extreme statements.

LOL So glad im not the only one who sees this 

[Pappy13]

Pappy, if you want to bring Ross into the picture, then he technically has the final say on any decision he wants

Technically? Ross technically has the final say, but not really, that still belongs to Ireland right?

I don't really want to get into it with you Spider because I don't know how the Dolphins brass really handle things any more than you do, but I have a little bit of knowledge of how businesses in general work and rarely does it come down to he who has the title makes all the decisions. Generally all the major players get into a room and come to a consensus. Now if they can't come to a consensus then maybe someone has to make the final decision and break the stalemate, but generally you can get people to come to an agreement. I really don't think it was that hard for Ireland, Ross and Philbin to all agree on the trade of Marshall. I don't think any of them really thought as much of Marshall as you do. He has talent there's no question, but it only rarely flashes on the field and too often his bipolarness gets in the way. I think they simply decided they could live without him and his salary and they picked up a couple of draft picks and made a little salary cap room along the way. Business is business.

But if you want to put it all on Ireland, that's fine with me. I don't really think we'll miss him all THAT much. Now that doesn't mean he won't do well in Chicago, I think him and Cutler seem to have a rapport, so it's not a bad place for him and I think he'll do better there then he would have done here, but I'm ready to see more of the young WR's on this team and there might still be a free agent out there willing to come to Miami. I've kinda come to peace with the fact that the Dolphins aren't going to fix their QB problem this year and that would have just meant another year of Marshall complaining about the QB, so time to move on. Let's see who they can pickup in the draft or free agency.

[Spider-Dan]

Technically? Ross technically has the final say, but not really, that still belongs to Ireland right?

Ireland has the final say on personnel/roster decisions (it is literally in his contract), which means that it is 100% accurate to say that Ireland has the final say on which players stay and go under the terms of his employment.

That being said, there is nothing in his contract that guarantees that he cannot be fired.  So if Ross and Ireland disagreed on a move, Ross would have to fire Ireland to override him (at which point Ireland would no longer be an employee and have no say whatsoever).  So yes, it's totally fair to say that Ireland has the final say in his position as GM.

[Pappy13]

Ireland has the final say on personnel/roster decisions (it is literally in his contract)

Damn, I was expecting that link to actually be his contract. Silly me, just an article about Fisher from Peter King. I didn't realize that Peter King was Fisher's agent or is he Ireland's agent, I'm confused, because I could have swore that he already had a job writing articles about what he thinks, not so much about what he knows.

You make it sound like Ireland and Philbin HAD to disagree on this.  How do you know this? Why couldn't it have been that Philbin, Ireland AND Ross ALL wanted Marshall gone? Is it STILL just Irelands call then?  I mean he gets to be the one to actually trade him, but it's not like he had FINAL SAY!!!! Over whom? No one was disagreeing with him.

Wait a minute, that article says that he had final say on the composition of the roster and draft, it doesn't say ANYTHING about coaches. I thought you said he had final say on the coaches too?

Time to just agree to disagree Dan. As usual.

[Spider-Dan]

Damn, I was expecting that link to actually be his contract. Silly me, just an article about Fisher from Peter King. I didn't realize that Peter King was Fisher's agent or is he Ireland's agent, I'm confused, because I could have swore that he already had a job writing articles about what he thinks, not so much about what he knows.

Let's be clear here: are you actually disputing that Ireland has roster control in his contract?

If so, provide your evidence.
If not, admit that you were wrong (if only to yourself) and shut up about it.

You said Philbin made the decision to "discard" Marshall, potentially because Marshall is not "his" guy.  That decision is made by Ireland, and Marshall was indeed Ireland's "guy."  You are wrong.  Move on.

You make it sound like Ireland and Philbin HAD to disagree on this.

No, I'm making it sound like Philbin couldn't have done a damn thing about it if Ireland wanted to keep Marshall.

Why couldn't it have been that Philbin, Ireland AND Ross ALL wanted Marshall gone? Is it STILL just Irelands call then?  I mean he gets to be the one to actually trade him, but it's not like he had FINAL SAY!!!!

It is EXACTLY like he had FINAL SAY.  Allow me to present three scenarios:

1) Philbin and Ross want to get rid of Marshall, but Ireland wants to keep him.  Philbin and Ross both eloquently present their case, but ultimately Ireland does not agree to the move.  Result: Marshall stays (or Ross fires Ireland).

2) Philbin and Ross want to keep Marshall, but Ireland wants to trade him.  Philbin and Ross both eloquently present their case, but ultimately Ireland insists on the trade.  Result: Marshall is traded (or Ross fires Ireland).

3) All three want to keep Marshall.  Result: Marshall stays.

Do you see the common link in all three scenarios?  As long as Ireland is GM of the Dolphins, he determines who stays and who goes.  This is why Jeff Fisher turned down the Dolphins!

Wait a minute, that article says that he had final say on the composition of the roster and draft, it doesn't say ANYTHING about coaches. I thought you said he had final say on the coaches too?

Wait a minute, that article says that Ireland is the GM, but it doesn't say anything about him receiving a salary!  I guess that must mean Ireland works for free!

[Pappy13]

Let me make this real simple.

1) I don't know what's in his contract.
2) A link to a Peter King article is NOT evidence of anything other than the fact that Peter King has an opinion. It's silly to make any kind of inference as to what's in his contract from an article as we have both pointed out.
3) I questioned your statement that you knew what was in his contract. If I'm wrong, then please provide your evidence and it better be his actual contract. Anything less is pure speculation. The onus is now on you to either produce the contract or admit that you don't know what's in his contract either.

[EKnight]

What this thread has devolved into is a perfect example of what I (not necesarily the OP) meant. While the majority of the board may not do this, the ones who do are the most vocal. Whether it's the Tebow thread, the Marshall thread, the "Manning isn't even going to meet with Miami" thread, the Casey Anthony thread, the "Life is sacred thread," or any number of other threads, spanning all topics, some of the members here not only seem to see things in only black and white (extremists), and not only have to be right on everything they post, but have to make others wrong in the process. It is- believe it or not- OK to disagree without being disagreeable. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

2) A link to a Peter King article is NOT evidence of anything other than the fact that Peter King has an opinion. It's silly to make any kind of inference as to what's in his contract from an article as we have both pointed out.
3) I questioned your statement that you knew what was in his contract. If I'm wrong, then please provide your evidence and it better be his actual contract. Anything less is pure speculation.

Pappy13,

The next time you cite an article from ESPN, or nfl.com, or Adam Schefter, or Jay Glazer, or anyone else saying that (for example) Paul Soliai signed a deal for 2 years worth $12 milion, I fully expect you to produce the actual contract language to prove that he is actually being paid that amount.  Apparently, statements of fact from accredited professional writers (with Pro Football HOF votes, no less) that are posted to major websites are no longer sufficient evidence in your book.  This is as compared to... your own personal opinion, with absolutely no evidence provided whatsoever.  Got it.

P.S.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_seasonticket/2012/01/does-jeff-ireland-have-final-say-over-miami-dolphins-personnel-decisions.html

But who has the final say over personnel when push comes to shove and the Dolphins are on, say, the draft clock or deciding which quarterback to pursue in free agency or trade?

“Technically, it’s mine,” Ireland said Thursday during a visit to the Sun Sentinel offices, “but we’ve talked about this too. We’re in this thing together. I believe in finding players for the head coach to help this franchise be successful. Again, it’s a team game.

Maybe Jeff Ireland is lying!

[badger6]

What this thread has devolved into is a perfect example of what I (not necesarily the OP) meant. While the majority of the board may not do this, the ones who do are the most vocal. Whether it's the Tebow thread, the Marshall thread, the "Manning isn't even going to meet with Miami" thread, the Casey Anthony thread, the "Life is sacred thread," or any number of other threads, spanning all topics, some of the members here not only seem to see things in only black and white (extremists), and not only have to be right on everything they post, but have to make others wrong in the process. It is- believe it or not- OK to disagree without being disagreeable. -EK

You know, I have thought the exact same thing for a long time. There are some here who have to be right about everything, or at least they think they are. That in and of itself is not too much of a problem other than insecurity and self esteem issues. Some around here can't play nice and, as you say, "disagree without being disagreeable" and take on that condescending know it all attitude. I don't post as much as I used to simply because there are some here that will argue about anything. The irony is that the majority of the time they argue about opinions and rumors, because we all know those are set in stone, ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

[Pappy13]

You know, I have thought the exact same thing for a long time. There are some here who have to be right about everything, or at least they think they are.

I apologize. I know I can give off that vibe and I don't really mean too, sometimes I just get caught up in the discussion. I tried a couple times to extricate myself from the discussion, but got sucked back in. My bad. I'll work on it.