Trayvon Martin case

[badger6]

Maybe if "the little boy" wore an orange vest that read "VISITOR", than the "big man" wouldn't have felt "threatened" enough to follow the "little boy".
Or maybe "the little boy" should have just known that anyone following him, is not someone wishing to do harm. But a concerned citizen making sure he got to his destination safely. After all, only strangers in vans are dangerous. Not ones driving a truck.
Weight may or may not matter. Common sense does. Zimmerman didn't show any.

You are entirely correct, Zimmerman was an idiot. But you are presuming to know the facts. There is no law about showing common sense. If Trayvon put his hands on Zimmerman, then as far as I can tell the law is on Zimmerman's side. It may not be smart or the best thing to do, but there is no law that says you can't follow someone as far as, I can tell.

[Phishfan]

 I used to "roll" (jiu-jitsu / grappling) with my buddy and I'm in pretty damn good shape at 175 while he was in pretty damn good shape at 225.  I felt like a 90 lb girl when going up against this guy. 

You were competing under a controlled set of rules. You were not in a street fight. The lack of rules can even a size difference.

[CF DolFan]

I grew up a punk arse street kid and I can tell you I'd rather fight a thick guy than a lanky guy .. assuming both having the same fighting ability.

I have a buddy who is 6'3" and weighs about 260lbs. In high school he never weighed more than 160lbs and maybe even less. We still joke about how many guys he knocked out. While myself and others probably fought much more than Steve ... he had the ancanny knack to just flat out knock people out. His puch came from downtown.  Needless to say I can't remember one time I've ever seen anyone lay a hand on him and yet he actually kncoked people out that outweighed him by a good 70lbs. It's a little harder to find people smaller than him these days but then again he probably hasn't fought in a while either.

I hate to sound like I am always attacking Treyvon but honestly I had more in common with im than Zimmerman ealry in my life. Other than the drugs.  In fact ... in an odd coincidence (in 1985) I was accused of breaking into houses in a neighborhood less than 1/2 mile from where this happened. I used to visit a girl in there and a teacher who lived in the neighborhood gave them my name. The Sanford police came to get me and question me at my house. Does this count as racial profiling too or just assuming a kid that causes trouble and dresses the part could be doing something illegal?

[fyo]

Two separate, independent voice analyses have now concluded that the cries for help on the 911 tape were NOT Zimmermans (the experts did not have a sample of Trayvon's voice, so no comparison was done with him).

[Spider-Dan]

I'd like to jump in on one point, this one:  Spider has addressed this several times, the "250 pound versus 140 pound" thing.  I've studied martial arts for over 30 years.  I teach it.  I have been involved in every self defense scenario known to man, I literally can't think of one which hasn't been brought to me to be addressed.

250 pounds, 140 pounds, 5'4, 6'4...this all doesn't matter.

Can a smaller person knock out or beat up a larger person?  Sure.  There are plenty of instances of women legitimately beating up men.

That does not mean that a substantial size difference "doesn't matter."  It's possible that Martin was a naturally talented fighter and Zimmerman was a bum; the opposite is also possible.  But as a martial arts trainer, you should agree that the reason why fighters compete in weight classes is because weight disparities have a significant impact... particularly if the fight involves any sort of grappling.

[bsfins]

I stole this poll from my local newspaper,The WHOLE thing,verbatim....So umm Here....

The special prosecutor looking into the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman in Florida has three options. What do you believe should be the next step?

Poll added...

[bsmooth]

Can a smaller person knock out or beat up a larger person?  Sure.  There are plenty of instances of women legitimately beating up men.

That does not mean that a substantial size difference "doesn't matter."  It's possible that Martin was a naturally talented fighter and Zimmerman was a bum; the opposite is also possible.  But as a martial arts trainer, you should agree that the reason why fighters compete in weight classes is because weight disparities have a significant impact... particularly if the fight involves any sort of grappling.

Not to mention the heavyweight class is the only class considered to always have a one punch knock-out no matter when in the fight. The lighter classes usually require significant number of punches to set up the knock-out punch.
Also factors such as physical shape and intoxication have parts to play too.

[Spider-Dan]

I stole this poll from my local newspaper,The WHOLE thing,verbatim....So umm Here....

The special prosecutor looking into the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman in Florida has three options. What do you believe should be the next step?

Poll added...

I'm not sure of the difference in legal ramifications between options 1 and 2.  Maybe someone more well-versed can elaborate.

[CF DolFan]

Isn't the Grand Jury just a process in which the State Attorney takes the pressure off of themselves to indict? I mean, they can move to press charges or if they are uncertain they have enough evidence, present it to the Grand Jury to get their decision ... which is just a group of local jurrors.

So basicly after two weeks the case has has gone full cirlce as that is what the local State Attorney was doing as well.

I know someone in Jax who works for the Children's division and they felt confident she would press charges based on her history. I'm not sure this bodes well that she is taking it to the jury. Even if they move to charge him she obviously didn't feel comfortable enough to do it. 

For what it is worth ...  the crowds keep getting smaller and more black locals seem to be getting louder in their criticism of those the feel are taking advantage of Sanford for their own personal gain. Just this past weekend the local leader of the NAACP said he does not support Sharpton's boycott of local businesses and behind the scenes had much more to say ... I am told. Sharpton has started backtracking realizing he is losing the local support which could get ugly if they were to join other black civil rights leaders like C.L. Bryant in their criticsm of AL and Jesse. 

[bsfins]

I'm not sure of the difference in legal ramifications between options 1 and 2.  Maybe someone more well-versed can elaborate.

I'm not a Lawyer, I asked my boss,and he rambled on Missouri grand jury.When I told him it was this case,he believed not being sent to the grand jury,would take the death penalty off the table for Zimmerman  (limiting the charges) ...Short and sweet answer...

(modified to clarify thought better sorry,was in a hurry)

[MaineDolFan]

Can a smaller person knock out or beat up a larger person?  Sure.  There are plenty of instances of women legitimately beating up men.

That does not mean that a substantial size difference "doesn't matter."  It's possible that Martin was a naturally talented fighter and Zimmerman was a bum; the opposite is also possible.  But as a martial arts trainer, you should agree that the reason why fighters compete in weight classes is because weight disparities have a significant impact... particularly if the fight involves any sort of grappling.

I think you might be shocked at the advantage I have over people larger than I am.  I am always weary when I had to fight someone in a lower weight class.  The assumption is always the weight class is to protect the lighter fighter, some degrees and some respects you'd be correct.  However, again, we're also speaking about a controlled enviroment. 

You're not taking anything else into account, specfically the most important element I mentioned earlier.  This is something I drill into my students.  When confronted, any animal (we're included in this) will have a natural "fight or flight" reflex.  In a dog pack the alpha is generally the largest and most powerful dog, yes?  When confronting a stray, in the wild, the stray will generally take flight.

When the smaller stray is willing to fight...that's when you need to take a second to take stock as to WHY.  The alpha will be weary in combat, he is used to the flight aspect.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's the fight in the dog. 

You put this kid in the ring with Zimmerman, he gets a couple shots in.  Zimmerman crushes the kid, otherwise - the majority of the time.

You put the two on the street and the smaller of the two doesn't back down after being confronted?  There is a reason for that.  So, yes.  I am discounting the size difference.

[Phishfan]

It appears the enhanced videos do actually show what could be an apparent injury to the back of Zimmerman's head.

[badger6]

It appears the enhanced videos do actually show what could be an apparent injury to the back of Zimmerman's head.

Doesn't matter what Zimmerman had on him. He could have had a quart of blood on him and people wouldn't care. People have made up their mind and want blood. Hell, at work I have guys saying that if they were Trayvon that they would have tried to beat Zimmerman's ass if he was following them. I tried to explain that following someone is not illegal but touching and assaulting someone is. Gotta love the fake alpha males, ha ha.....

[Spider-Dan]

You put the two on the street and the smaller of the two doesn't back down after being confronted?  There is a reason for that.  So, yes.  I am discounting the size difference.

The scenario that makes the most sense to me (given the available information) is that Zimmerman caught up to Martin a second time and attempted to physically detain him.  Martin effectively "resisted arrest," which is not at all difficult to imagine from a teenager, and doesn't require the sort of alpha-male interaction you describe (unless you consider general teenaged rebellion towards authority as fight-or-flight).  The conflict quickly escalated and Martin was shot.

Furthermore, following your train of logic, we would also have to predict that a woman being attacked by a man would be "more ferocious," and therefore, the more dangerous of the two.

I also think that you are failing to account for the fact that one of these participants was a teenager, and the other was a grown ass man.  Just as I would give the advantage to a 250 pounder over a 140 pounder, I would also give the advantage to a 28-year-old over a 17-year-old.

[MaineDolFan]

^This will sound like dripping in sarcasm, it's not meant to me - no other way to say this on a computer screen (you can't hear my vocal intent):

What year are you living in?

This isn't 1951.

The whole "he's an adult, he gets the edge" is about as out dated as "he gets the edge, he weighs more."  But what do I know?