Trayvon Martin case

[Spider-Dan]

I don't think you can presume that. You would probably need proof either way. IMO, the injuries to both or lack there of aren't consistent with that assumption.

Once again: injuries tell you absolutely nothing about who started a fight.  You can start a fight and still lose it.

[el diablo]

Just putting this out there for further discussion.

Zimmerman also says that Martin circled his car during the course of events. That does not sound like someone in a defensive state of mind. If I am scurrying away from someone, I don't circle their car.

I'll give you that. If I'm trying to escape, I wouldn't circle that person's car. While they are still in it. So, that (like a lot of things) opens up more questions. When did the "circling" take place? Before, during, or after the 911 call? George made no mention of that during the call. If Trayvon ran away, it didn't happen after the call. So, that would leave, before the call. Problem. You've established that the unknown person had "something" in his hands or waistband. So, why would you get out of your car and chase that same person who was "circling" your car?

[Spider-Dan]

I am having a hard time figuring out when Martin could have been circling Zimmerman's car.

My understanding of the timeline (according to Zimmerman) is:

1) Zimmerman spots Martin and follows him (in car) while calling 911
2) Martin takes footpath behind houses, away from street
3) Zimmerman gets out to pursue and is advised otherwise by dispatcher
4) Zimmerman ceases pursuit and is looking for street address or is on the way back to car (conflicting stories)
5) Martin ambushes Zimmerman

So when did Martin circle Zimmerman's car?  Before he dialed 911?

[bsmooth]

I don't think you can presume that. You would probably need proof either way. IMO, the injuries to both or lack there of aren't consistent with that assumption.

The injuries to Zimmerman are not that great, but the lack of injuries to Trayvon does not mean that he was defending himself after being attacked. Even his own doctor said so in their report. Also being forgotten is the fact Trayvon was on the phone the whole time too, and the witness  heard Trayvon ask "why you following me" and that he was scared.
There is not one shred of proof that Trayvon "circled" the vehicle. Zimmerman's story has holes in it, and his injuries do not add up to life threatening.
All we have to go on is the story of a guy covering his ass who has a violent history. Oh yeah who also is a liar and has little credibility anymore.

[Phishfan]

Circling probably does not best describe what happened, though I think that was Zimmerman's word during the walk through. He does say during the 911 call that Martin is staring at him and walking toward his car to check him out.

[bsmooth]

Circling probably does not best describe what happened, though I think that was Zimmerman's word during the walk through. He does say during the 911 call that Martin is staring at him and walking toward his car to check him out.

Perhaps he meant something different when he used circling.

[Phishfan]

He may have even said he walked around his car and I replaced that with circling. I'm not sure.

[el diablo]

He never mentioned "circling" in the 911 call. Just like the 911 dispatcher never asked him " can you get to where you can see him." Based on George's account, Trayvon would've had to pass by him in order to get to where he was going. Twice. Once by the clubhouse. And again by where George parked his truck on the street. George didn't know where Trayvon was staying. So, to George it might appear that Trayvon was coming towards him "to check him out".

[Phishfan]

^^^ Maybe I don't understand what you are saying but that doesn't jive with what I understand of the story. I thought Zimmerman pulled from the clubhouse toward where Martin was walking. Martin would never have to approach the car or pass him based on what I understand because he was in the lead of Zimmerman.

[el diablo]

I stand corrected. The first time was when George 1st saw him. The 2nd time was when George was parked at the clubhouse. Then George pulled over to the corner where he saw Trayvon.

[Dave Gray]

After so much time has passed and things have calmed down, I think it's easier to see this clearly.

Guilty/Not Guilty -- I don't really care about that all that much.

I think that Zimmerman is probably somewhat of a crazy person, simply because of how many times he called the police prior to the incident.  That's something that's not really being talked about a lot.

[Phishfan]

I think that most certainly was talked about early in this story (at least in my circle). Now people seem to be more focused on the story and facts more than that.

[bsmooth]

I still laugh over his explanation that he had to get out of the car to figure out which of the three streets he was on.

[CF DolFan]

^^^ The FBI reports came out oday and they said Zimmerman has a "hero complex" and is not consistant with being a racist. I think the "hero complex" describes a lot of his behavior that we would deem unusual like continuing of calling the police.

[bsmooth]

^^^ The FBI reports came out oday and they said Zimmerman has a "hero complex" and is not consistant with being a racist. I think the "hero complex" describes a lot of his behavior that we would deem unusual like continuing of calling the police.

Funny? I have a story here from the FBI report where he told a co-worker four days after the shooting that Martin was trying to mug him.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303644004577522921327607902.html?mod=us_news_newsreel