Trayvon Martin case

[badger6]

I think Will Smith summed it up best.  "We live in America...where the girl who poured flour on Kim Kardashian was arrested on site.

Because there is proof and plenty of witnesses to what happened in that situation.

But the man who shot Trayvon Martin is walking free.

Because we live in a country of laws that have to be followed.

Fact:  We know this guy shot him.

Fact:  We don't all of the circumstances surrounding the shooting.

Fact:  Due to wording of the law and lack of evidence an arrest wasn't made.

Fact:  This guy is walking free.

[badger6]

Do we know if those clothes he's wearing in the video are the same from the incident?  If so, and Zimmerman claims that Treyvon was on top of him during the shot, wouldn't he have blood all over him?

Not sure, but it would be interesting to know.  I saw an interview where someone said that he was wearing a t-shirt. In the video he is wearing a t shirt but had a jacket on. I don't know, maybe he put his jacket on after the indecent and before going to the police dept. I would think that lack of blood wouldn't really prove much either way.

[badger6]

Interesting to learn the investigator made the recommendation to file charges only to have the prosecutor's office decline.

In that video, I wish there was a better shot of the back of the head. It isn't the greatest quality but I thought I may have seen what looked to be something although it obviously wasn't bleeding at the time. I really can't tell. As for the mention of no visible blood, what do people expect. He had received medical attention at the scene. Common sense tells you they cleaned the wound. I'm sure a paramedic isn't going to send someone away with an uncontrolloable wound saying they don't need any more attention.

Paramedics more than likely would have stopped the bleeding and cleaned him up. Depending on how bad he was bleeding he may or may not have any blood on his clothes. I couldn't see anything on that fuzzy video even though I tried to zoom in on it but that really doesn't mean much. At the 51 second mark the officer is checking out the back of his head. I would assume to make sure that he didn't start bleeding again if in fact he was injured in the first place.

[Spider-Dan]

No, the police themselves have repeatedly stated that they don't have enough evidence. If I am wrong about that someone please correct me.

[...]

Quotes from the Miami Herald*

-Before temporarily stepping down from his position on March 22,  former Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee said that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest Zimmmerman.

-Lee defended the police in a memo on the Sanford city website, writing: "Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based of the facts and circumstances they had at the time."

-Early in the investigation, Lee also said police found no evidence to establish probable cause in the case, which is need to arrest someone.

 
Quote from the Miami Hearld*

"The Seminole County State Attorney's office has said previously that evidence obtained by police was insufficient for an arrest."

Do you understand that the entire reason this case is a big deal is because the police claim there isn't enough evidence for an arrest?  This is after their own lead investigator recommended that Zimmerman be arrested for manslaughter.

In case you haven't noticed, the point that I've been making in most of my posts is that even with the limited information that's available to the public, there appears to be probable cause to issue an arrest:

- Several minutes after having been advised not to follow Martin (and verbally acknowledging this request), Zimmerman was somehow outside of his car again, brawling with him
- Zimmerman outweighs this minor by a sizable margin
- Martin was unarmed
- Bystanders claim to have heard a young boy cry for help
- Phone records confirm that Martin was on the cellphone with a friend at approximately the time of the incident
- This girl has yet to even be interviewed by the police department, yet she claims that Zimmerman was the aggressor

Meanwhile, videos are surfacing of this "bloodied and broken-nosed" man at the police station, looking anything but.

Saying that the police have determined that there isn't enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman is about as relevant to this discussion as saying that the LAPD determined that Rodney King was an extremely belligerent and serious threat.  The whole point of the uproar is the police department's extremely questionable judgment in letting this man walk.

[suck for luck]

Duke Lacrosse team sez hey.

Has our white black president condemned the bounty yet?

[Phishfan]

The whole point of the uproar is the police department's extremely questionable judgment in letting this man walk.

My one comment here is that it was not the police's decision. As you recognize, the investigators recommended an arrest. When it all comes down, the prosecutors are the ones who pulled the trigger (excuse me for that but it is a common term) on letting him walk away.

Now the police are playing the PR game. Of course they are saying we don't have enough evidence. What they mean under their breath is the prosecutors don't think there is enough evidence. No good police force is going to throw their prosecutors under the bus publicly.

There is also the distinct possibility the prosecutors are playing an end game that no one is even considering. They did not like the evidence they had so they did not charge him. This is going to go in front of a grand jury though and this case has a lot of publicity. I dare say it would be very difficult for the grand jury to still let him walk away. I also dare say that any jury selected for a trisl is likely to be very well versed in this case which may increase the prosecution's odds. There is also the possibility that the jury comes back with a casey Anthony verdict though.

[Landshark]

My one comment here is that it was not the police's decision. As you recognize, the investigators recommended an arrest. When it all comes down, the prosecutors are the ones who pulled the trigger (excuse me for that but it is a common term) on letting him walk away.

Now the police are playing the PR game. Of course they are saying we don't have enough evidence. What they mean under their breath is the prosecutors don't think there is enough evidence. No good police force is going to throw their prosecutors under the bus publicly.

There is also the distinct possibility the prosecutors are playing an end game that no one is even considering. They did not like the evidence they had so they did not charge him. This is going to go in front of a grand jury though and this case has a lot of publicity. I dare say it would be very difficult for the grand jury to still let him walk away. I also dare say that any jury selected for a trisl is likely to be very well versed in this case which may increase the prosecution's odds. There is also the possibility that the jury comes back with a casey Anthony verdict though.

They might have to do a change of venue.  If the trial is held in Sanford, there will be a bunch of protestors. 

[Spider-Dan]

My one comment here is that it was not the police's decision. As you recognize, the investigators recommended an arrest. When it all comes down, the prosecutors are the ones who pulled the trigger (excuse me for that but it is a common term) on letting him walk away.

A coworker of mine made the same argument; it's not the PD, but the DA who made the call.

My response is essentially that it's all executive; if you really want to make the point that the protesters should cross out "Sanford Police Dept." and instead write "18th Circuit State Attorney's Office" on their signs, I guess that's fine, but at the end of the day, the law enforcement agency with appropriate jurisdiction chose to let him walk.  I am less interested in finding out the precisely correct person to point a finger at than I am in rectifying the problem.

[Phishfan]

Yea, and an innocent police chief stepped down because of thousands of people with the same philosophy.

[Spider-Dan]

As they say, sh*t rolls downhill.  He's the one that's in the press conference defending the decision, so he's the head that rolls.

edit: So much for the "innocent" police chief:

Source: Sanford police chief, state attorney made Zimmerman 'no charge' call in person

A source with knowledge of the investigation into the shooting of Trayvon Martin tells theGrio that it was then Sanford police chief Bill Lee, along with Capt. Robert O'Connor, the investigations supervisor, who made the decision to release George Zimmerman on the night of February 26th, after consulting with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger -- in person.

[Pats2006]

[Buddhagirl]

I knew this thread would deliver.

[bsmooth]

Ah god bless the ignorant. The case you are refering too from Knoxville is not remotely close to the photo and information you provide. Where did you get it, a white supremacist site? The two victims were not mutilated sexual and dismembered. The girl was dead within 24 hours, not days later. Even the prosecutors office said these were lies. Also there was no racial element to the crime, but this hs not stopped the outcry of whites who feel persecuted in a country they are the majority, and control all centers of power.
But most importantly a 5 suspects were quickly caught, prosecuted, and sentenced to very long prison terms and in one case to death.

[bsmooth]

Also it is important to show the older picture of Zimerman as it is his booking photo. It is the documented histry of violent man, who likes to confront others and engage in violence. He then blames the other party for starting it all. Trayvon was the third person he has confronted and engaged violently with. Yet Zimmerman has been the poor victim in all three cases.
As to the question of the video. I worked for years at bars an have witnessed countless fights which caused similar injuries as Zimmerman was equating too. They all looked disheveled even after the blood had been cleaned off their faces, and I have never seen a man knocked down by a much lighter man and pummeled without the ability to defend himself without resorting to using a weapon ever. Only a couple times did I see a much heavier man get laid out by a lighter guy, but they were very drunk. I myself have been suckerd punched by lighter men (I weighed around 220) and never was dropped as Zimmerma is claiming a 140lb teenager did to him.

[Spider-Dan]

Pats2006, the supposed "current" picture of Martin in your "media narrative" image has been confirmed not to be him (though I'm sure it's "close enough" for the creators of said image).

As for the "media outrage" image, were the offenders in said image arrested?
Yes?
Then that's a damned sight more than has happened to George Zimmerman.

Again, had Zimmerman even been arrested, this story wouldn't have blown up.  It's the very fact that an unarmed black minor can be shot and killed (based on suspiciously being in the wrong neighborhood) and his killer isn't even arrested.

Let me reemphasize this for the "reverse racism" crowd:  not even ARRESTED for killing an unarmed black CHILD.  To any person who already feels unfairly targeted by racial profiling, this incident screams "abandon all hope."