Neil deGrasse Tyson: We Stopped Dreaming

[Lee]

I'm sure this will turn political, but I do believe it is too important not to spread the knowledge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl07UfRkPas&feature=player_embedded

I am a firm believer of NASA and its major contributions to society.

[mecadonzilla]

I love this man.

[Dave Gray]

1) Neil deGrasse Tyson is boss.

2) This is one of those issues where I'm torn.  I love NASA, personally.  And I think that the argument can be made that the ultimate goal of space exploration is the single most important goal of not just America, but humanity in general, which is to learn more about ourselves, our existence, and our environment.  But I reject two things.  First off, I don't like comparing how much we spend on one thing and relating it to another thing, in order to justify it.  Even if it's only 1/8 of a penny, unjust money is still unjust.  So, I reject that arguing point.  If the bank bailout was a bad decision, so be it -- don't use it to justify other unsound decisions. 

My bigger question is that we need to ask ourselves if it's the role of government to run a space program without a specific, defined national interest.  I think you can make an argument that it is the role of government, but you need to define it, which leads me to my second point: I don't like the "aimlessness" of the space program.  There doesn't seem to be any defined goal to the exploration.  When we were trying to get to the moon, there was a challenge that we all rallied behind.  We succeeded.  It was shared accomplishment through shared sacrifice.  I think that's lacking now.  NASA lacks concrete goals.

I think that I'd like to see us invest in greater technology, in general, and that includes space exploration and the discoveries that come with it.  I don't mind using additional funds/grants/tax breaks towards that goal -- however, I'd like for it to be much more clearly defined than it is now.

[bsfins]

I'm not going to get into political,should we fund NASA,or should we not...I'm just going to present my view,and feeling after watching the video...

I don't think we stopped dreaming,I think it plainly said we went to the moon because of Sputnik,war,etc...Then everything was built around tomorrow,Future world,etc...I feel that's the fundamental lie,misleading truth part of it....

I'm 36,gonna be 37 in August,they space race was pretty much over for most of my life,we won...But the feeling that by now we would be living on the moon,mars,going to space more often the future world of tomorrow would be much farther along...Where did I park my flying car? I think we were sort of lead to believe a lot more of us would have been in space by now...

I feel my older siblings probably feel more deceived for a better sense of the word than I...While Totally Unfair,I see NASA as a face for those failures in some way.

I totally agree with Dave,that NASA needs a defined direction,mission etc...

It's just my take on the video...I'm not sure what to think of NASA honestly...

[Phishfan]

I feel more people in Florida (I wonder about the Houston area) have more interest in NASA because of location than people who live isolated from the events. There was huge interest when the shuttle first started flying and when the shuttle stopped flying. In between, when I was in other parts of the country, no one had any idea the shuttle was going up or coming back unless there was a tragedy. In Florida I still never paid attention myself but the natives would always know the schedule.

I just don't know that our most current path was adding much to our lives. I may be mistaken but what recent advancements can we attribute to NASA (the key word is recent) as far as manned missions? Maybe someone can sway me, but I just do not see any real advancement going on.

[bsmooth]

I agree with Tyson. The man is pure genius.

[EKnight]

We're in the midst of the sixth mass extinction event- and the first one caused by man- but rather than try to make our planet better, we are going to go putzing around in space. It's not enough we screwed up this planet with global warming and the exploitation of fuels and organisms, so now we're on a mission to screw up more planets. Wow.... Never been prouder to be an American. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that we have "already screwed up this planet."

That being said, if you really want to take the long view, getting off this planet should be the most important goal of the human race.  Right now (with all humans confined to Earth), no matter how many windmills and solar panels we build, one poorly-placed meteor and our civilization is toast.  And in the really long view (the ridiculously long, not-worth-arguing view), our planet itself has a limited shelf life before it takes up residence inside the Sun.

So while I do think space exploration (and specifically, colonization) is the most important thing for our species, I wouldn't say it's the most important thing right now.

[EKnight]

Really? A bit of a stretch? Do you just not believe in global warming? Pollution? Extinction of plants and animals- some of which aren't even discovered until they're dead- that ultimately could help cure disease? You are aware that a prostoglandin in simple fish oil has been shown with 100% success to completely cure leukemia in animals. Human trials are underway and look just as promising. What if we continue killing off organisms at the rate we are now, and oops! We knock off one that could cure all cancers or AIDS or any number of other diseases? The fact that Americans spend enough on their pets every year to feed, educate, and vaccinate the entire world is embarrassing, by we just keep consuming and consuming and consuming and give little back. 191 countries ratified the Kyoto Protocol documents. America didn't. Countries who were too poor to have three sticks to rub together signed it to try and actually do something beneficial for the planet, but America in its arrogance did not. Why? May personally inconvenience one of us some day, so Bush felt like those resources could be better used on say... Space travel. That's great. When we meet an alien race and they ask us, "hey partner, what brings you out our way?" the answer we will give can be, with all the honesty in the world, "well... We destroyed earth, caused global warming, spent all our money on space travel instead of education for our young or health care for our elderly, and since our planet's no fun anymore and we spent hundreds of billions of dollars in NASA, we thought we'd screw up your planet next. You wanna slide over a little? We're gonna just squeeze in here." -EK

[Spider-Dan]

Really? A bit of a stretch?

Yes, I think it's a huge stretch to say that this planet is already screwed up.

It's fair to say that Lehman Brothers is already screwed up.  It's fair to say that AOL is already screwed up.  It's fair to say that Chernobyl is already screwed up.  The entire planet Earth?  You're jumping the gun.

[EKnight]

Then you have no concept of ecological reality. The rate at which the global temperature is rising, water is being consumed, and species are becoming extinct is the worst ever in the history of, well, ever. There's a valid concern that mankind will run out of clean water by the end of the century, and it's already happening in this very country right now. To conserve water, the state of Texas restricted water use in 1,000 cities and towns last year. Of those, 17 are considered critical -- in danger of running out of water in six months or less. Two already ran out of water this month. That's not jumping the gun. It's not sometime soon. It's now. And as long as people remain in denial about what we did to this planet like you're doing, things will continually get worse. Add to this that it took until 1850 to have a billion people, and the exponential growth of the world's population has us over 7 billion as of now, and estimates of 9-12 billion by 2050. Where are resources going to come from? We're running out of things NOW with 7 billion. WTF is your plan for your children or grandchildren with another 3-5 billion people on earth? The excat issue is that for years people have said, "you're jumping the gun." Global warming is here NOW. Water crisis is here NOW. 6th mass extinctionis here NOW. -EK

[bsmooth]

Then you have no concept of ecological reality. The rate at which the global temperature is rising, water is being consumed, and species are becoming extinct is the worst ever in the history of, well, ever. There's a valid concern that mankind will run out of clean water by the end of the century, and it's already happening in this very country right now. To conserve water, the state of Texas restricted water use in 1,000 cities and towns last year. Of those, 17 are considered critical -- in danger of running out of water in six months or less. Two already ran out of water this month. That's not jumping the gun. It's not sometime soon. It's now. And as long as people remain in denial about what we did to this planet like you're doing, things will continually get worse. Add to this that it took until 1850 to have a billion people, and the exponential growth of the world's population has us over 7 billion as of now, and estimates of 9-12 billion by 2050. Where are resources going to come from? We're running out of things NOW with 7 billion. WTF is your plan for your children or grandchildren with another 3-5 billion people on earth? The excat issue is that for years people have said, "you're jumping the gun." Global warming is here NOW. Water crisis is here NOW. 6th mass extinctionis here NOW. -EK

I believe humans will do what they always do. Wait until the last minute and then come up with a way to survive it after we have shed off around 1/3 to 1/2 the population.
You forgot to mention that the countries who are increasing the world's population the fastest are also the ones who have the least amount of resources and where collapse will happen first.

[Spider-Dan]

The rate at which the global temperature is rising, water is being consumed, and species are becoming extinct is the worst ever in the history of, well, ever.
[...]
There's a valid concern that mankind will run out of clean water by the end of the century
[...]
Where are resources going to come from?
[...]
WTF is your plan for your children or grandchildren with another 3-5 billion people on earth?

You seem to be making a whole lot of references to the future.

Is mankind out of water now?
Are there no resources for the children of today?

If not, your claims that the planet is already screwed seem to be A BIT OF A STRETCH.

You claim that it's people like me that are the problem; I humbly suggest that people like you are much more of an issue.  When you run around shouting that we have already entered the apocalypse of a resource-barren planet and the average American reads this on their iPhone while sipping an iced latte, you come off as a complete wacko.

It is more accurate to say that we are on an unsustainable path and that we should take action to correct this.  But when you are screaming that Earth is already screwed, you dilute the sane, accurate message of the people trying to convince the public that no, we are not in the f'ing End Times today, but we should probably take some action now to avoid (<--- this part is important) a very bad future.

[EKnight]

Spider you're out of your league trying to argue this one with me; this isn't football or politics. I'm a bio major. It's what I do. Are we out of water now? YES. I already told you two towns in Texas- not some developing country, but right here in the land of plenty- that ran out of clean water this year. Are we out of resources? In some places YES. Have we caused global warming that has already screwed up our climate? YES. Pick up any scientific journal that deals with ecology, biological diversity or climate control, and read a bit. You're flat wrong. The time to say, "we need to start," has passed. We should be in the midst of, "Look at what we've already done." But does America do that? NO. How do 191 countries ratify Kyoto, but America doesn't? WTF is that? The entire world realizes the crap hole humans have created, but America remains in denial. There's the "people like you." The belief that it's not really that bad, and that immediate action is probably already too late is so ignorant and unfounded- especially in the face of an entire planet going, "Whoa, wtf's the matter with America?" I know you'll come up with some response that twists my words because that's what you do. I know you have to have the last word in any thread because that's also what you do, so fine. I'm not going to continue arguing something that is factually true. Before you respond, go grab a phone book, and randomly pick any person in Spicewood Beach or Robert Lee, Texas, who don't have clean water to drink or bath in and ask them if they think the planet's screwed yet. Go call someone who lost a house because of any one of the increasing number of hurricanes, whose strength and frequency have increased due to global warming- ask them if they feel like we've messed up this Earth. Several peer-reviewed studies show a clear global trend toward increased intensity of the strongest hurricanes over the past two or three decades. The strongest trends are in the North Atlantic Ocean and the Indian Ocean. According to the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC-AR4), it is “more likely than not” that there is human contribution to the observed trend of hurricane intensification since the 1970s. In the future, “it is likely [better than 2 to 1 odds] that future tropical cyclones (typhoons and hurricanes) will become more intense, with larger peak wind speeds and more heavy precipitation associated with ongoing increases of tropical [sea surface temperatures].” Since the 70s means it's already happening, not some future "maybe." I'm sure you'll still have some twisted logic reply to this, since water and homes aren't really that important to survival, and that's fine. Live in denial if you choose to. I'm not going to debate this further. I can't make sense out of your nonsense on this one. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

Spider you're out of your league trying to argue this one with me; this isn't football or politics. I'm a bio major. It's what I do.

Really?  Because previously, when you were casually mentioning that you were a champion weightlifter, you were also claiming to be premed.  Which medical field is it that specializes in climate science, again?

Are we out of water now? YES. I already told you two towns in Texas- not some developing country, but right here in the land of plenty- that ran out of clean water this year. Are we out of resources? In some places YES.

It almost sounds like you're saying that some places on Earth are in serious trouble.

Is the planet Earth ALREADY screwed?  Not Spicewood Beach, Texas.  Not sub-Saharan Africa.  The planet Earth.

There's the "people like you." The belief that it's not really that bad, and that immediate action is probably already too late is so ignorant and unfounded- especially in the face of an entire planet going, "Whoa, wtf's the matter with America?"

The irony here is amazing.

Tell me, which one of us two is saying, "We need to take action to avoid a dreadful future," and which one is saying "Our planet is already doomed!"

Before you respond, go grab a phone book, and randomly pick any person in Spicewood Beach or Robert Lee, Texas, who don't have clean water to drink or bath in and ask them if they think the planet's screwed yet.

Emphasis added:

When Wells Run Dry: Spicewood Beach, Texas is Out of Water

"The LCRA’s plan from here? Keep trucking in water for as long as it takes them to find a long-term solution, which they estimate could be six to eight more months. Those three to four loads a day cost about $200 each, and the LCRA says for now they will absorb the cost. But in a few months, they say, residents may have to start paying extra for water."

Life in drought: Parched Texas town seeks emergency fix

"More water is on the way, but it will only be enough to meet the basic needs of the town of 1,049 and will come at the expense of yet another sizable water rate increase."

Two tiny desert towns (population: less than 1200 each) in Texas may face a sizable water rate increase?  We are, indeed, at the End Times!