Neil deGrasse Tyson: We Stopped Dreaming

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If I could only choose one  (and I really doubt we can do both, probably can't do either)

a) put our energy, talent and resources into cleaning up the environement on this planet so it sustainable for human life.

b) put our energy, talent and resources into find another planet we can move to and pollute until it is inhabitable and then move again.

I choose the first one.   

[Spider-Dan]

Provided that b) was actually possible, I choose b) in a landslide.  There are a lot of planets in the universe.

[EKnight]

Really?  Because previously, when you were casually mentioning that you were a champion weightlifter, you were also claiming to be premed.  Which medical field is it that specializes in climate science, again?

I'm not debating the topic further with you. Please do not attack my character by making implications that I am lying about my education. Get your head out of your ass long enough to understand that ANY biology degree- whether it be premed, cellular and molecular bio, evolutionary bio, or any other bio degree is going to have many of the same core bio requirements- two of which are ecology and conservation ecology, both of which emphasize (at least at my school) man's role in biological interactions with the rest of the world. I wasn't "claiming" to be premed any more than I was "claiming" to be a champion powerlifter. It is what it is. Every doctor who graduates with a biology degree before heading to med school has had some sort of education about the climate and our interactions with it. I'm guessing they don't teach that at Spider U. -EK

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Provided that b) was actually possible, I choose b) in a landslide.  There are a lot of planets in the universe.

So do you buy a new car every time your car gets dirty, instead of taking it to the car wash? 

Cause that is what you are basically proposing.   

[Fins4ever]

I feel more people in Florida (I wonder about the Houston area) have more interest in NASA because of location than people who live isolated from the events. There was huge interest when the shuttle first started flying and when the shuttle stopped flying. In between, when I was in other parts of the country, no one had any idea the shuttle was going up or coming back unless there was a tragedy. In Florida I still never paid attention myself but the natives would always know the schedule.

I just don't know that our most current path was adding much to our lives. I may be mistaken but what recent advancements can we attribute to NASA (the key word is recent) as far as manned missions? Maybe someone can sway me, but I just do not see any real advancement going on.

Let me give you some insight.

First, I love the space program and all of it's achievements. I worked with NASA since STS-3 (Space Transportation System, 3rd flight of the Shuttle) and stayed at Kennedy Space Center for 27 years working in many different positions and saw over 120 flights.

During that time, sadly NASA lost it's edge. After the Challenger explosion, NASA determined the Shuttle would no longer be used for launching satellites. Instead, it would focus on science and the International Space Station, of which NASA would bear the brunt of the costs. The satellites were then moved to be launched from CCAFS (Cape Canaveral Air Force Station) using the workhorse Delta program.

The GAO (Government Accounting Office) is the office responsible for overseeing NASA's budget and sadly, NASA routinely fails the financial audits every year. GAO came out and said "every endeavor NASA undertakes, costs more, takes longer and does less than what was projected." In other words, NASA has become an inefficient government albatross. That is a shame.

After then President Bush announced he was ending the Shuttle Program to pursue more advanced technical alternatives, I sold my house and left the area. NASA is to Cape Canaveral what GM is to Detroit. Don't blame Bush, the Shuttle was woefully outdated and each launch costs many times what was initially thought. At the end, we were close to running out of replacement parts. The painful aspect was NASA could not procure enough budget to gradually end the Shuttle Program while simultaneously starting a new program.   

Like other areas of industry, I feel private companies like Space X should replace NASA. Private industry has proven time and time again to be more creative, inventive and financially responsible than government agencies.

To answer a posters question, "has NASA done anything recently?" My answer would be no, not to what I have seen.     

[Spider-Dan]

I'm not debating the topic further with you. Please do not attack my character by making implications that I am lying about my education.

Please don't try to represent yourself as having professional authority on climate science because you are taking classes in the medical field.

I find it very convenient that you categorized yourself as "premed" when the discussion was about professional salaries, but a "bio major" when the discussion is about climate change.  The reason why is obvious: if you said, "Don't try to argue with me about climate science... I'm premed" it would be an obvious non sequitur.

[Spider-Dan]

So do you buy a new car every time your car gets dirty, instead of taking it to the car wash? 

Cause that is what you are basically proposing.

Again, operating under the presumption that it is feasible to get off of this planet, that should be our goal anyway.  The overpopulation of Earth will never just go away as a problem, and it's a bad idea to have the entirety of our civilization subject to a random asteroid.

That's not to say that preserving this planet is a bad idea.  But if we can feasibly spread out further, we should (regardless of how well we take care of Earth).

[Sunstroke]

So do you buy a new car every time your car gets dirty, instead of taking it to the car wash? 

Cause that is what you are basically proposing.  

I think your comparison is a little off, but using the rough framework in a more legitimate comparison:

If it took my car 12-15 years to get dirty enough to consider taking it to a car wash, and that timeframe coincided with the wearing out of the tires and several engine parts, then yes...I buy the new car.

This comparison also doesn't take into consideration any "new" things we discover on these new worlds, whether it be new technology, a planet full of the "rare metals" our tech requires, etc...

[Phishfan]

Thanks for the insight from an insider's perspective Fins4ever.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think your comparison is a little off, but using the rough framework in a more legitimate comparison:

If it took my car 12-15 years to get dirty enough to consider taking it to a car wash, and that timeframe coincided with the wearing out of the tires and several engine parts, then yes...I buy the new car.

This comparison also doesn't take into consideration any "new" things we discover on these new worlds, whether it be new technology, a planet full of the "rare metals" our tech requires, etc...

I really think our 'disposable' attitude is a big part of the problem.  Right now we have no freaking clue where there might be another planet suitable for human life.  Best case it is many light years away. 

And if we did find one could we really transport the entire overpopulated planet to another planet or just a select few. 

If we spent the same amount of money and effort as it would cost to send four people to Mars on developing crops with better yield THIS planet could feed more people.  The cost of our space program exceeds the burden that the Kyoto agreement would cost American businesses. 

I say we take care of this planet first.  I am pretty sure it is the only one we will ever have. 

[EKnight]

Please don't try to represent yourself as having professional authority on climate science because you are taking classes in the medical field.

I find it very convenient that you categorized yourself as "premed" when the discussion was about professional salaries, but a "bio major" when the discussion is about climate change.  The reason why is obvious: if you said, "Don't try to argue with me about climate science... I'm premed" it would be an obvious non sequitur.

No one said anything about professional authority. I don't give a rats ass what your opinion on any of this is because it's not only incorrect but it's uneducated. I've stated previously that I'm a pre-med bio major. Where's the issue there? Not all bio majors take the same trek after the first two years. If I was a zoology bio major I would have said that. I'm not, so I didn't. It doesn't matter how many classes on climate or ecology I've taken though, because a person could have zero knowledge about the field and still know more than you. ROTFL that you don't believe catastrophic storms like Katrina that are more frequent and more intense because of human causes are not current, present-day problems, and that the planets not f*cked. Wonder how those people who had their houses float away felt about that point of view. Sorry, what did you go to college for again? Anything in the science field? -EK

[Spider-Dan]

No one said anything about professional authority.

To speakers of English, when someone attempts to claim authority on a subject while saying, "It's what I do," that is an appeal to professional authority.

I don't give a rats ass what your opinion on any of this is [...]

I'm not debating the topic further with you.

I'm not going to debate this further.

"I'm taking my ball and going home!  I mean it this time!  No, I REALLY MEAN IT THIS TIME!"

Comedy gold.

ROTFL that you don't believe catastrophic storms like Katrina that are more frequent and more intense because of human causes are not current, present-day problems, and that the planets not f*cked. Wonder how those people who had their houses float away felt about that point of view.

I wonder if we should ask the British royal family, the heirs to the Walton empire, or Mitt Romney if the planet is already screwed.  Because apparently, asking individual persons to evaluate the planet's current state based on their own personal turns of fortune is now Establishing Fact.

P.S.

I know you have to have the last word in any thread because that's also what you do, so fine.

Irony, thy name is EKnight.

Now please, feel free to reply with yet another post in which you declare that You Are Finished Responding To Me.  If you say that, I hear it's just like getting the last word, because the other person's response Really Doesn't Count (as You Are Done With The Discussion).

This is not at all like whoring yourself out for the Last Word.  Totally different.