Fins Take Tannehill

[MikeO]

So what happened to Charles Clay?  I thought the point of drafting him last year was that he was supposed to take over TE.

Is TE really more of a need position than WR?  It doesn't make sense to be spending a 3rd there.

H-Back. Clay can start at FB and also line up at TE as well on certain plays.

It's all about acquiring playmakers and more athletic players. Trying to get as many on the field as you can. In our new offense the TE position is very much important. Lots of 2 tight end sets are run.

[MikeO]

It's not the same offense. You may not have heard, but the Dolphins are switching to a west coast offense. They took a BUNCH of players that fit the offense, not just a TE. Nobody is getting rid of Fasano just yet, but there's no harm in bringing in some competition is there? If I'm hearing you correctly it's not so much a problem with the TE you have, but rather that they didn't take a WR earlier. Well the fact is that there were plenty of good WCO type WR's and there was really only 2 good "seam" TE's Fleener and Egnew. If you wait on Egnew he might be gone and they did take 2 WR's later that are very good WCO type receivers. If they would have taken one of them earlier and taken the TE later would it have made you feel better because it certainly wouldn't have changed the fact that they added 2 WR's and TE that fit the WCO. I don't really see the big problem you are having with this.

Also the fact that Fassano HAS been Miami's most productive receiver after Marshall in recent years is why the Dolphins have sucked! Fassano is not a top flight TE. He is a back-up TE at best and even those days are numbered for him in that role!

It's NOT like we are breaking up a successful offense here! There is a reason why this unit stinks and needs to be revamped!

[EKnight]

The problem I'm having with it is that they the player they drafted in the third round was not a significant enough upgrade at TE to pass on safety (who they never drafted) or WR. The receivers they did draft aren't going to see any kind of playing time. There's a reason they went in the 6th and 7th round. Don't fool yourself into thinking they were "steals." They weren't- they're late round talent who, like most late round talent, may not even make the team. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

Exactly.  This team has lots of areas that need improvement, and in the hierarchy of needs, finding a replacement for the most productive pass catcher remaining on the team should be a lower priority than replacing your Pro Bowl WR (particularly when you just drafted a TE last year).

If the argument is that Fasano doesn't fit this offense and needs to be replaced, why was Clay drafted last year at all?  It doesn't make sense.  Compared to almost everything else, TE is one of the better positions on MIA right now.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It is a copy cat league. 

Last year your division rival won the conference largely on the success of the two tight end formation.  Now everyone wants two tight ends that can both block and catch. 

[MikeO]

If the argument is that Fasano doesn't fit this offense and needs to be replaced, why was Clay drafted last year at all?  It doesn't make sense.  Compared to almost everything else, TE is one of the better positions on MIA right now.

Different offensive scheme and different coaching staff

[Diehard_Dolfan]

Different offensive scheme and different coaching staff

Exactly!

He doesn't seem to get that yet!  Philbin needs guys that fit his system... Fasano obviously doesn't fit his system.  So it doesn't matter what you, me or anyone feel about Fasano if the guy running the ship feel he doesn't fit!  If the offense fails and doesn't work because he doesn't have the pieces then people will be asking why didn't he draft or sign the right players?

You can't force just any TE or WR into the West Coast offense... it's a reason everyone doesn't run the WCO!

[Pappy13]

He doesn't seem to get that yet!  Philbin needs guys that fit his system... Fasano obviously doesn't fit his system.

I'd just like to interject that it's not necessarily that Fasano doesn't fit the system, but that perhaps that Egnew fits the system better and you need more than 1 TE in this league. I don't think Fasano or Clay are going anywhere, but the rest of the guys that call themselves TE on the team should definately be looking for a spot on another team.

[Spider-Dan]

If "different offensive scheme" means "we need to get rid of the two most productive pass catchers on our team because they 'don't fit'" then I humbly suggest that maybe Ireland and Ross should have went in a different direction with their coaching search.

[Diehard_Dolfan]

If "different offensive scheme" means "we need to get rid of the two most productive pass catchers on our team because they 'don't fit'" then I humbly suggest that maybe Ireland and Ross should have went in a different direction with their coaching search.

You make everything sound so easy!

I'm not trying to give Ireland a pass but, I understand what it takes to go in a different direction.  Also, It's not like there were coaches lining up for this job... have you forgotten that?   I think there is a lot going in to these choices that most aren't thinking about...  The fact that Reggie Bush is going to be looking for a new contract!   I don't know but maybe Fasano is not what they want or near a new contract himself?    It's obvious Philbin has a blue print from his days at green bay and is sticking with it!

All the receivers fit that Jordy Nelson mold big and athletic not blazers but, you don't see anyone containing Nelson, do you?  They all actually fit that Brandon Marshall mold as well... they are all big and strong!   I don't remember hearing Brandon Marshall really tearing it up at UCF either!  Marshall played against a different level of competition than most these guys also...coming from the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 you see different talent than coming from Conference USA...  I pointed out in other threads until recently.... you didn't hear people talking about Green Bay's receivers... they weren't household names.

[Spider-Dan]

Here's my problem:

When Arizona got a new coach, I don't remember them saying "Oh, we need to get rid of Fitzgerald and/or Boldin, they don't fit our system."
When Minnesota got a new coach, I don't remember them saying, "We need to move AP, we just can't make him work in our scheme."
When SF got two new coaches, I don't remember either one of them saying, "We don't have a place for Willis in the defense we want to run."

This entire line of "we can't make good players work in our system" (before a down has been played) sounds like lazy excuse-making to me.

[Pappy13]

If "different offensive scheme" means "we need to get rid of the two most productive pass catchers on our team because they 'don't fit'" then I humbly suggest that maybe Ireland and Ross should have went in a different direction with their coaching search.

Why? We had one of the worst offenses in the league, why you would want to continue with that offense? I think some of you may have the logic backwards. When you have one of the worst offenses in the NFL, you don't look at your top producers and say "Whatever we do, we got to keep those guys". No you look at it and say "These guys aren't getting it done, it's time to go find some guys that can get it done" and if that means putting in a new offense and drafting some guys that fit that offense then you do it.

[Spider-Dan]

Why? We had one of the worst offenses in the league, why you would want to continue with that offense? I think some of you may have the logic backwards. When you have one of the worst offenses in the NFL, you don't look at your top producers and say "Whatever we do, we got to keep those guys".

When you have one of the worst offenses in the league, you definitely don't say, "We need to rebuild our offense... let's start by getting rid of the only Pro Bowl skill position player on that side of the ball."  If the offense is bad to begin with, how does shipping off your best players help?

[Pappy13]

When you have one of the worst offenses in the league, you definitely don't say, "We need to rebuild our offense... let's start by getting rid of the only Pro Bowl skill position player on that side of the ball."  If the offense is bad to begin with, how does shipping off your best players help?

Well we didn't just GIVE him away, we got 2 3rd round draft choices for him. A lot depends on what those 2 3rd round picks contribute, but it also allows Hartline and Bess a chance to step up and see what they offer. Personally I think Hartline is a better receiver than most give him credit for, but he's been underutilized in Miami, mostly because Marshall has been the primary target. That's just my opinion and no, I don't think Hartline will replace Marshall's numbers because he won't be asked to replace Marshall, there will be 2 or 3 guys that will be asked to replace Marshall's numbers to become less predictable and more flexible.

And that's not even taking into consideration the locker room. Marshall is a terrifically gifted player, but he's also a huge distraction and I don't think he would have been very happy NOT being the number 1 receiver and just becoming another receiver which is what he would have had to do to fit into the WCO. It's not so much that Marshall couldn't have been productive as a WCO receiver, but he'd have to be open to that idea in the first place which I find highly doubtful. The last thing you want when you turn over the coaching staff is someone who thinks he's more important than the system being implimented. Maybe Marshall would have been open to that idea, but then again maybe not.

And that's all assuming that Marshall isn't suspended before the season starts. I think he's still in danger of losing some playing time.

Then there's the whole contract side of things where trading Marshall allows more room under the cap for other positions/players.

That's just a few ways that it might have helped to trade Marshall. We'll just have to wait till the season starts to see whether or not the plan actually works, but I don't think it's a bad strategy especially considering the previous one wasn't working.

[EKnight]

Pappy, I see what you're sayng- and believe me, I agree with Spider as often as NEVER- but if you are really going to help Miami by trading 1200+ yards, 6TD's and ~80 catches, you have to do better than drafting a TE to replace those numbers, when the current TE is the next best receiver on the team- better than Hartline or Bess for two years now. He's got more TD's and more receptions of over 20 yards than either of those guys. If you're going to give them a chance to step up, you should give him the same chance. The TE pick would have been better spent on Iloka or Allen- either safety was a greater need than TE for Miami. Everyone keeps saying how it's a "passing, QB league." That's fine, but when you don't have anyone on the defensive side of the ball to stop those QB's that everyone else has, drafting a position you already have covered isn't logical. -EK