Hate for Hartline

[Doc-phin]

Now that I've watched the video, I will say I disagree with your analysis a bit more.

I saw exactly 4 instances where Hartline could have kept his feet to try for a longer run:

3:10 - Hartline makes a catch in the flat and dives forward into 3 defenders.
6:15 - Hartline jumps for a deep ball and trips after coming down with it
7:55 - Hartline had 3 or 4 steps on his man and had to lean to get the ball a bit and fell after the catch
8:40 - Hartline dives on a comeback route when he probably didn't need to.

There were probably 40 or 50 plays in that highlight reel, and 4 of them I agree he could have kept going.

If you hate Hartline so much, go ahead and send him to New England and watch him become a Pro Bowler, and then whine about how he was underutilized here.  Hartline is very underrated, and I hope he gets to show his stuff this season.

I am considering going through and tagging plays the way you did.  Interestingly enough, I mentioned that about 1 out of 10 plays could have been much bigger gains.  Your analysis is consistant with that.

I don't want to ship Hartline out.  I like the guy and think he is a fairly good player.  But he is our best receiver and I find that to be a problem.  I specifically chose the term "best receiver" here.  I am not looking for a Calvin Johnson type guy.  But if our best receiver doesn't try to find a way to catch the ball and run, where does that leave us?  I am greatful for his good hands and sideline awareness, but we need more than that.

[Diehard_Dolfan]

I am considering going through and tagging plays the way you did.  Interestingly enough, I mentioned that about 1 out of 10 plays could have been much bigger gains.  Your analysis is consistant with that.

I don't want to ship Hartline out.  I like the guy and think he is a fairly good player.  But he is our best receiver and I find that to be a problem.  I specifically chose the term "best receiver" here.  I am not looking for a Calvin Johnson type guy.  But if our best receiver doesn't try to find a way to catch the ball and run, where does that leave us?  I am greatful for his good hands and sideline awareness, but we need more than that.

You seem to miss the point that the QB has a lot to do with YAC also...  What made Montana and QB's like Kurt Warner and Tom Brady great is their placement of the ball!   They put the ball in a spot that lead the receiver away from the defender and up field.   That makes a big difference in the receiver having momentum to continue running away from the defender. If the receiver has to adjust his route to get to the ball he losses that momentum and the separation!

[Spider-Dan]

I think we all need to get the "primary target" idea out of our head. The primary receiver will now be the guy that's open instead of the guy with the "open mouth". Hartline will be fine.

I'm not talking about "primary target"; Mike Wallace can be the #1 receiver on your team without being the guy you throw to on every set of downs.

When I say "#1 receiver," I mean the best receiver on your team; the player that the opposing team specifically gameplans to stop.  Dropped TDs or no, Marshall was a legitimate #1 receiver.  Ginn was not.  Chambers was, for a short time.  Hartline has not shown anything to indicate that he's ready to be the best receiver on a team.

[Brian Fein]

I didn't count the total number of plays, but in 9 minutes of time, I estimate each one about 20 seconds.  Its just a guess.

I wonder if you were to look a similar highlight reel of another possession-type receiver in the league, what it would show.  1 out of 10 isn't terrible, and certainly doesn't qualify as "always goes to the ground too soon."  Also, as stated above, the lack of a prime-time QB on this team cannot be understated.

As a #1 primary target WR, Hartline scares me.  But like MikeO said, Hartline is a "nice player" and has great hands.  He's definitely worth keeping around.  I am interested to see what he does this season, as I think he's perfect for the type of offense I keep hearing Philbin is planning on running.  I think this year could be a break-out season for Hartline, and in a contract year, we will really get a good feel for his real true value very soon.

[Pappy13]

When I say "#1 receiver," I mean the best receiver on your team; the player that the opposing team specifically gameplans to stop.

But you don't have to have a #1 receiver that the opposing team gameplans for to have a good passing attack. You can have a team of 3 or 4 receivers that the defense never knows who will be the receiver on any given night that they will have to stop. In many cases that's tougher to stop.

[el diablo]

^^^^^^ as long as those 3 or 4 receivers are reliable enough to catch the balls thrown to them. As long as the QB has the vision to find any of those 3 or 4 guys. Then, yes.

[Spider-Dan]

But you don't have to have a #1 receiver that the opposing team gameplans for to have a good passing attack. You can have a team of 3 or 4 receivers that the defense never knows who will be the receiver on any given night that they will have to stop.

Those systems do not work without an elite QB.  By that, I mean that you can't have a Tony Romo, or a Philip Rivers, or a Matt Ryan... you must have a Brady/Brees/Rodgers pulling the trigger.

Now, it would be great if Tannehill turns out to be the next Aaron Rodgers, and can turn a bunch of above-average WRs into a devastating offense.  But I don't like the idea of building a team around that premise.

[Pappy13]

Those systems do not work without an elite QB.  By that, I mean that you can't have a Tony Romo, or a Philip Rivers, or a Matt Ryan... you must have a Brady/Brees/Rodgers pulling the trigger.

Now, it would be great if Tannehill turns out to be the next Aaron Rodgers, and can turn a bunch of above-average WRs into a devastating offense.  But I don't like the idea of building a team around that premise.

I think we have already seen that having an elite WR doesn't mean dick either without an elite QB.

[Tenshot13]

It's not like Hartline was a top ten pick.  He was taken in the fourth round.  He's a nice player to have on a team and has performed very good for MIA...not great but very good.

[Cathal]

I've continually said it. Hartline is the man and I have no idea where this all of a sudden disrespect and thinking he's a horrible receiver came from. I think race could play a factor, just like every other white player in a skill position. I can't remember the running back, but he had that problem has well (was it the Browns' running back, Hillis?). If the Dolphins get rid of Hartline I'd be just as upset as when they got rid of Welker. They always seemed like the same type of guy to me.

[Brian Fein]

Its a story being perpetuated by a vocal minority.  No one can say he doesn't give 110%, and he's been thrust into the spotlight by the Marshall trade.  He's the best we got, but he's not Calvin Johnson.

[Spider-Dan]

I think we have already seen that having an elite WR doesn't mean dick either without an elite QB.

MIA hasn't even had a second-tier QB in decades.  Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson seem to do pretty good with second-tier QBs.

[Spider-Dan]

I've continually said it. Hartline is the man and I have no idea where this all of a sudden disrespect and thinking he's a horrible receiver came from. I think race could play a factor, just like every other white player in a skill position.

Can you tell me with conviction that Hartline is a clearly superior player to Davone Bess?

Hartline is a role player.  Maybe with a quality QB, he can have a breakout season (like Welker did).  But you can say the same thing about Greg Camarillo, and MIA discarded him without much fanfare.

For the record, I was a much bigger fan of Camarillo than Hartline.  Camarillo had the best hands in the league and simply would not drop anything.

P.S. I can think of at least one skill position at which white players seem to get past the "race factor" without a problem.  Coincidentally, it happens to be the highest paid position in the sport.

[EKnight]

Wait, so Schaub and Stafford- he of the 97.2 QB rating 5038   passing yards and 41 TDs last year- are second tier QBs? Interesting.... -EK

[masterfins]

Hartline is a "nice" player. For where he was drafted he has outperformed the expectations. There are very few knocks on the guy and negative things you can say against him as a player.

IF he is the #1 WR going into the season come September its the opportunity of a lifetime for him. I'm not sure hie is anywhere near a #1 WR in this league but we will find out.

IMO, this hits the nail on the head as far as Hartline is concerned.  I'd be surprised if he is the #1 receiver come the start of the season.  Best wishes for him if he is.