More educated than uneducated people are now unemployed

[Spider-Dan]

Did it ever occur to you that that "piece of paper" shows a commitment to follow through with something and commit yourself to a task over the long haul, which absolutely sets you apart from those who don't have a degree?

Doesn't possession of a high school diploma prove that you already have said commitment?

Unless, perhaps, you are only considering achievements earned entirely during adulthood.  In which case, wouldn't raising a child show an even larger commitment to following through and committing yourself to a task over the long haul?

[dolphins4life]

Going to college was the worst decision I ever made.

My family is very wealthy so my parents paid for all my education, but if they had given me that money, I could probably have paid for my health insurance for the rest of my life.  

Going to get a phlebotomy certificate right out of college would have been a much better choice.  That has already paid itself off for me.    

[EKnight]

Doesn't possession of a high school diploma prove that you already have said commitment?

Unless, perhaps, you are only considering achievements earned entirely during adulthood.  In which case, wouldn't raising a child show an even larger commitment to following through and committing yourself to a task over the long haul?

No. Possession of a diploma, when kids still graduate who can't read above a third grade level shows me nothing. How does raising a child fit into this at all? No one even mentioned that it would or would not help with advancement. It's immaterial. -EK

[Landshark]

No. Possession of a diploma, when kids still graduate who can't read above a third grade level shows me nothing. How does raising a child fit into this at all? No one even mentioned that it would or would not help with advancement. It's immaterial. -EK

I have to agree with this statement.  It seems like they give out high school diplomas as if they were toilet paper nowadays. 

[Cathal]

Yeah... a high-school diploma really doesn't show you anything, especially when you're pretty well forced to go to high-school.

[Spider-Dan]

No. Possession of a diploma, when kids still graduate who can't read above a third grade level shows me nothing.

It sounds like you're now saying that the actual education from attending college is what is important, and not your previous claim about the commitment to a long-term goal.  That's an interesting position, since:

a) Since when does a college degree actually prove that you know a subject, any more than a HS diploma?
b) If it comes down to actual, practical knowledge, I would be happy to compare a person with many years of experience in the relevant position (but no degree) over a person with a Bachelor's degree in said field

How does raising a child fit into this at all?

Because originally, you were trying to qualify a degree from the standpoint of proving that you can follow through on a long-term commitment... and a child is a much longer-term commitment than any degree.

So which one is important?  The education (which the degree doesn't prove any more than a diploma does, and which can be easily outpaced by years of real-world workplace experience) or the commitment (which is no more than that of a HS diploma, and which is greatly outweighed by the commitment of raising a child, or making it to the Major Leagues, or serving two tours in Afghanistan, etc.)?

[masterfins]

Doesn't possession of a high school diploma prove that you already have said commitment?

In High School you have teachers and parents (hopefully) who are always checking up on you to get your homework done and study for tests, etc. (High Schools have an interest in getting students to graduate).  In college most professors don't care whether you turn in assignments, show up for class, or do well on test.  They have no problem failing you.  For many in todays society it's the first time they have accomplished anything as an ADULT. (obviously there are exceptions).

As for Badger, I don't think NOT having the piece of paper should keep anyone from being promoted to a higher job if they have worked for a company and shown proficiency.

[Landshark]

In High School you have teachers and parents (hopefully) who are always checking up on you to get your homework done and study for tests, etc. (High Schools have an interest in getting students to graduate).  In college most professors don't care whether you turn in assignments, show up for class, or do well on test.  They have no problem failing you.  For many in todays society it's the first time they have accomplished anything as an ADULT. (obviously there are exceptions).

High schools have an interest in getting students to graduate (and also to pass the state standardized test) because it allows the school to get more money from the state and federal government and ensure that the teachers keep their jobs.  If a school has students that are consistently failing, the state eventually takes over and the first thing they usually do is overhaul the entire faculty.   

[bsmooth]

Getting a degree does show commitment, and yeah it probably helps.  But it's gotten out of control.  Do you really need an MBA in Business administration to fill out a form 4?  All the jobs I had they said if you want to be a manager you have to have a business degree.  Why?  You manage a movie theater or a call center.  Is the paperwork really that difficult?  It was no different than the paperwork we had to do at the grocery store I worked in. 

One of the other of many glaring problems, they offer degrees that won't get you a job.  Remember that movie PCU where the dean goes "I think Bisexual Elephant Studies (or something at the time that seemed ridiculous) should have its own department..."  the sad part is most colleges will let you major in it now.  Then they get a degree and a mountain of student debt, and the HR people that interview them (my hatred for HR departments aside) look at them and go what the hell does a degree in (insert ridiculous major here) do to make you more prepared for this job?  NEXT! 

Now you have a mountain of student debt, no career prospects, and no future.  Congratulations.  Thanks for the 4 years tuition the government paid on your behalf, have fun with your sports studies degree, and we'll send you a letter every year soliciting a donation.   Meanwhile, you flood the market with cheap college labor, and the world still needs plenty of bartenders and waitresses.

I am tired of hearing this mantra. There are many people out there with "legitimate" degrees who are out of work, or working low paying jobs because of the economy. A J.D. degree which has been long considered a "legitimate" degree is now worthless because of the economy and the fact the schools are failing to give students the skills needed to immediately start working at a high level without more training by their employers.
Schools, both for-profit and traditional have been ripping off students for years on tuitions, books, and education quality.

[BigDaddyFin]

^^^ So you feel like your degree is more legitimate than mine?  I want to make sure I read that right because I don't want to go on a rant based on a misunderstanding.

There are many people out there with "legitimate" degrees who are out of work, or working low paying jobs because of the economy. A J.D. degree which has been long considered a "legitimate" degree is now worthless

 If you're tired of hearing people say what I posted, there must be an awful lot of people out there who feel this way and there must be a reason for it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

There is a huge difference between getting a degree in bisexual elephant studies and a JD. 

One has never been nor ever will be a path to a career.  The other has historically been very secure path which recently fell apart. 

[Doc-phin]

...but in your opinion, a person who never attended college at all is a superior choice?

"Why try and fail, when you can just not try at all?"

I believe they have a better chance at being a superior choice.  There are lots of legit reasons for not going to college.  There are only a few to not finish college.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't think it's a meaningful distinction.  There's effectively no way to distinguish between the following:

- too lazy to go to college
- couldn't afford college
- had other family commitments preventing college enrollment
- decided that college was not a sound financial decision
- decided that they would rather pursue a tradeskill-based career

- college was too difficult
- unforeseen family issues interfered with continued attendance
- changing financial circumstances (e.g. layoff)
- costs escalated unexpectedly (e.g. tuition increase, changes in financial aid availability)

[BigDaddyFin]

There is a huge difference between getting a degree in bisexual elephant studies and a JD. 

One has never been nor ever will be a path to a career.  The other has historically been very secure path which recently fell apart. 

I understand that completely, Hoodie.  Forgive me for slipping a little humor in.    

But evidently since the two of us are in the same boat, in that we have to work in jobs outside our field, I want to make sure I understand what it is he's so sick of before I go on the ulitmate higher education rant if it's not necessary.

[Landshark]

I understand that completely, Hoodie.  Forgive me for slipping a little humor in.    

But evidently since the two of us are in the same boat, in that we have to work in jobs outside our field, I want to make sure I understand what it is he's so sick of before I go on the ulitmate higher education rant if it's not necessary.

I'm guessing you were implying that a lot of college students wasted money on majors that are really of no use to them in the business world and are now paying the price, while he's taking the position that there are a lot of people out there that majored in something useful in business and still can't find a good job.

Go ahead and write your rant.  I'd love to read it.