More educated than uneducated people are now unemployed

[Pappy13]

I'm fairly sure that most of his more recent stuff was more on the serious side rather than the funny side.

Just keep in mind that Carlin didn't go to college, he's never worked a day in his life for a large corporation that I'm aware of, that he was basically kicked out of the military as a poor performer and that he's been nothing but a comedian his entire adult life. I'm not really sure he's the best authority on the subject. Don't get me wrong, I love Carlin, but he doesn't have a lick of experience when it comes to corporate america. He doesn't have any more insight into it then you or I and actually probably a lot less.

[Spider-Dan]

Since MaineDolfan mentioned the other thread, this seems like a timely followup:

I want to get some opinions on a situation where I am employed. At the company where I work, all of the employees have the same title and have the same pay scale, with exception of management. On a daily basis the females and older males are instructed and allowed to do very easy work duties and the younger males are made to do the more difficult physical jobs.

When I ask these women why they are just standing there watching me work, they tell me that there is nothing else to do, which is probably true. I then suggest that they could help and they say that they can't lift that weight and that it is my job, not theirs.

When I first entered the workforce 22 years ago I bought into all that bullshit they try to sell you.

Now, it is possible that:

a) you consider a paper route or lemonade stand to be "entering the workforce," or
b) you entered the workforce in some other country that doesn't have the rigorous child labor laws of the United States, or
c) you work with a lot of retirement-age males

But if not, there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

[badger6]

Why yes, corporations and businesses want people to be leaders who have a better understanding of micro and macro-economics, business, etc. For it is this knowledge that could help them understand and improve the company in the future. Working a productions line for 10 years does not allow you to understand the fundamentals of economics or global factors. There is a reason the leaders of industry rarely come from the assembly line.

Tell that to a couple guys I know who have been with their company for over 10 years each. Guys who can do any job in the in the place from cleaning the toilets to running the whole facility and everything in between. These are the guys that management and supervisors go find to get things done when they and their fancy degrees can't figure out how to do things. And yet, every time even the most low level management or supervisor position opens up. What does the company do ? Do they hire from within, like they preach ? Absofuckinglutely not. They go hire some jackass with a mass produced toilet paper MBA who can't even make a work schedule for employees in the department they were hired to run.

Those are the guys I feel bad for. When it comes down to it do I really give a shit ? Nope, not really, but it's not right and I have seen it happen too many times at too many companies not to give an opinion on the matter.........

[badger6]

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, badger - but I think this needs to be said...this is also coming from a guy who was complaining about having to work harder because the older guys stand around while the young "horses" do the work.

It's not that educated people are "programmed" - it's you have become (1) very narrow minded and (2) very judgmental towards anyone who has something you don't.  You said it yourself earlier in the thread about people standing around with clip boards but they don't know anything:

Ha, ha this isn't something worth fighting about anyhow.  But I'm glad you brought it up. I guess that since I see things differently than you that I'm narrow minded. I guess that I could say the same about you, but it's a moot point because you will never see what I'm talking about either because you can't or won't. But since you say that I'm judgmental toward people that have something that I don't. Please tell me what I don't have.....

I ran into a lot of this while I was in the military.  I had a lot of guys who had a thing about being told what to do.  They didn't like me because of the rank on my sleeve (prior to being moved to CID) and then didn't like me for obvious reasons after that.  I wasn't someone who earned my rank, I was just someone who "must have gotten lucky and rubbed up against a wall and had those stripes stick."  Yet these were the same guys who, five years later, were still sitting at E-3 with no shot at being promoted...for several reasons.  It was never their fault.  It was always someone else's.  They always had better ideas of what "they would do if they ran this place" - all the while having no idea of what it really took to run a platoon, squad or a unit.

I have no problem whatsoever being a subordinate and being told what to do. In fact it's my preference. I want the least amount of responsibility available to me. I do my job and I do it well. I go to work, do my job, and go home. That's it. As for company functions, company meals, holidays, picnics, singing the company motto while clapping hands during meetings like a 3rd grader, fuck 'em. I'm there to work and that's it, I have plenty of friends already. I think you have me all wrong !!!

Fact is, you aren't really privy to what those people did in school because you didn't do it.  I've heard the exact same statements before - it's general "out of sight, out of mind" - and, fact is, you don't know what else those folks are doing when you don't see them, because you don't know what else their job entails.

I'll keep it civil, but this is an enormous assumption on your part. You see Maine, I have known a current manager where I work now for 9 years now and have worked with him at 3 other places in the past. So actually, I am privy to what he did in school, what he can and can't do, what he does on a daily basis, what his job entails and what he does when I'm not there. Maybe everyone doesn't have this luxury but I do.

Everyone thinks they can hit a Justin Verlander fastball if "just given the chance."  They just can't.  Not without the proper tools.  My opinion on your opinion?  It's a very narrow minded way of thinking.  You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding people who "have that piece of paper that you don't have."  Why don't you remove the chip, find something you have an interest in and obtain training and / education in the field rather than trying to tell people who did spend time doing so they are, basically, "the walking dead, just doing what the man tells them to do?"  From the sounds of your previous rants about your job, it doesn't sound as though it's Nirvana there either.

No chip, just a different opinion than you.  If someone went to college to better themselves, good for them. Having said that, college is overpriced, overvalued and overrated in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Rants about my job ? Please enlighten me !!!!!

[badger6]

Since MaineDolfan mentioned the other thread, this seems like a timely followup:
Now, it is possible that:

You have entirely too much spare time on your hands. Let's see here if my math is correct. I am 40 years old and I started working between 18-19 years old.

a) you consider a paper route or lemonade stand to be "entering the workforce," or

Retail store clerk job at 18 and promoted to assistant manager around 6 months later

b) you entered the workforce in some other country that doesn't have the rigorous child labor laws of the United States, or

Nope, wrong again. Good old US of A.

c) you work with a lot of retirement-age males

Strike 3 little fella....

3 people in their upper 40's, 4 people in their mid 50's and 1 in their lower 60's with about half of those females. In reference to that thread, it seems that my age and gender is the cut off point for actually working, which I am told is illegal according to federal law.

But if not, there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Does that mean that you think I'm lying ?

[Spider-Dan]

Rants about my job ? Please enlighten me !!!!!

I presume that your memory has been refreshed.

Now then, in your original thread (the one where you complained about being singled out for a heavy workload because of your youth), I think the fact that you are 40 years old is a somewhat relevant detail.  If a 40-year-old man considers himself one of the "younger males" on a job site, it puts a considerably different spin on the entire story.

Based on the opinions you have expressed in this thread of what it takes to advance in the business world, I humbly suggest that maybe you are being asked to perform a larger share of the physical work for reasons unrelated to your age.

[badger6]

I presume that your memory has been refreshed.

Now then, in your original thread (the one where you complained about being singled out for a heavy workload because of your youth), I think the fact that you are 40 years old is a somewhat relevant detail.  If a 40-year-old man considers himself one of the "younger males" on a job site, it puts a considerably different spin on the entire story.

Once again for the most part I was referring to females and the few males older than 45 years old. There is no different spin on the entire story at all, it's the same as when I started the thread. I also wouldn't call it a rant, I was asking for opinions.  The fact that it's only females and a certain age range in one department that are consistently 100% being shown preferential treatment . Age and gender are protected groups just as equally as race and religious affiliation. So in fact what they are doing is just the same as saying that only black people have to do the hard manual labor while the white people stand around and do nothing. No other department does this, I wonder why ? EDITED to remove pending legal info. Let's just say the matter is being dealt with through different channels !!!

Based on the opinions you have expressed in this thread of what it takes to advance in the business world, I humbly suggest that maybe you are being asked to perform a larger share of the physical work for reasons unrelated to your age.

Not at all. Everyone that's not female and under the 45 age limit are being discriminated against. Spin it how you want.....

[bsmooth]

Tell that to a couple guys I know who have been with their company for over 10 years each. Guys who can do any job in the in the place from cleaning the toilets to running the whole facility and everything in between. These are the guys that management and supervisors go find to get things done when they and their fancy degrees can't figure out how to do things. And yet, every time even the most low level management or supervisor position opens up. What does the company do ? Do they hire from within, like they preach ? Absofuckinglutely not. They go hire some jackass with a mass produced toilet paper MBA who can't even make a work schedule for employees in the department they were hired to run.

Those are the guys I feel bad for. When it comes down to it do I really give a shit ? Nope, not really, but it's not right and I have seen it happen too many times at too many companies not to give an opinion on the matter.........

A couple guys you know. There is a reason that corporations and businesses want people with degrees working for them at higher levels. This does not mean that someone cannot climb the ladder from the mail room, but the majority of people who have gotten to the higher levels have usually backed their years of experience and management with a "piece of paper".

[Phishfan]

A couple guys you know. There is a reason that corporations and businesses want people with degrees working for them at higher levels. This does not mean that someone cannot climb the ladder from the mail room, but the majority of people who have gotten to the higher levels have usually backed their years of experience and management with a "piece of paper".

I really had to think twice about weighing in here as I really didn't want to get involved. I just felt compelled to weigh in here though. You are arguing a different beast than Badger is here. He is not discussing "higher levels". He is talking about the position of a retail store department manager. Having worked in retail at one stage in my life (and being a department manager) it really is a far cry from being considered at a higher level of the company.

[bsmooth]

I really had to think twice about weighing in here as I really didn't want to get involved. I just felt compelled to weigh in here though. You are arguing a different beast than Badger is here. He is not discussing "higher levels". He is talking about the position of a retail store department manager. Having worked in retail at one stage in my life (and being a department manager) it really is a far cry from being considered at a higher level of the company.

I understand that, but where do you think they draw regional and higher level managers from? Having that "piece of paper" could be the difference between you and fellow managers who are all competing for the same position. As I said, it can be a useful feather in your cap for later down the road when the positions bottleneck and you need to seperate yourself from the competition.

[MaineDolFan]

I'll keep it civil, but this is an enormous assumption on your part. You see Maine, I have known a current manager where I work now for 9 years now and have worked with him at 3 other places in the past. So actually, I am privy to what he did in school, what he can and can't do, what he does on a daily basis, what his job entails and what he does when I'm not there. Maybe everyone doesn't have this luxury but I do.

No chip, just a different opinion than you.  If someone went to college to better themselves, good for them. Having said that, college is overpriced, overvalued and overrated in the name of the all mighty dollar.

Your first statement - you're correct.  It was an assumption on my end (clearly a wrong one).  I do wonder - why don't you respect someone more if you've worked with him for 9 years and three different jobs, though? Going by your original statements, it doesn't sound as though you care for the person all that much?

Second statement:  I'm not a person who needs a lot of material items, but I also am not one who minds having a dollar in my wallet!  This said, I do think I know where you are going with that one.