Early signs are that Garrard is the leading QB candidate.

[Cathal]

And why did the Browns score the winning TD in the closing seconds?  Because the offense that supposedly had a "good game" kept settling for field goals.  They score touchdowns, this isn't even an issue.    The problem lies with quarterback play.  It's a passing league and the Dolphins didn't have any capable passers last season. 

Henne is gone, and hopefully come the end of training camp, Moore will be as well. 

It does go both ways. The defense sucked in the 4th quarter (especially the secondary) and the offense sucked in not getting a lead. I don't know why we're discussing this when both units were bad.

[Spider-Dan]

I watched a Colt McCoy led team march down the field and score a TD in the closing seconds on a play that a high school defensive back could have prevented. Moore wasn't even in that game, and the offense outplayed the D, 369 yards to 280.

I cannot recall hearing a more non-sensical statement than "the offense outplayed the D, 369 yards to 280."  Are you saying that the defense would have outplayed the offense if they had allowed 370 yards?

Put in a more objective fashion: the average yards gained (and allowed) per game in 2011 was 346.8.  Against CLE, Miami's offense outplayed the average by 20 yards; Miami's defense outplayed the average by 66 yards.

You guys can keep riding the jocks of the average D Miami had. If they were as great as you think, surely Miami would have won more than 6 games.

Who said they were great?  They were better than the offense.  The offense wasn't good.

[EKnight]

Who said they were great? The ridiculous nonsense over and over and OVER about being "3rd against the run and 6th in points allowed" implies they were great. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

How does that imply greatness?

It implies that they were better than the offense, which they were.  And you keep talking about the horrible fourth-quarter rating of the defense, but I still have yet to hear you say what the offense's rank was in the same quarter.

[Cathal]

^^^ In his defense, I think if anyone said a specific unit was top 5, it would pretty much imply it was a darn good unit/great unit. Anyways, that's semantics. Moving on.

[EKnight]

How does that imply greatness?

It implies that they were better than the offense, which they were.  And you keep talking about the horrible fourth-quarter rating of the defense, but I still have yet to hear you say what the offense's rank was in the same quarter.

Miami's scoring avg each quarter:
1st: 5.2 ppg
2nd: 5.4 ppg
3rd: 5.7 ppg
4th: 4.2 ppg

Defense points allowed:
1st: 3.3 points per game against
2nd: 5.4
3rd: 3.1
4th: 7.5.

The offense was fairly consistent throughout, only averaging a single point (1.2 actually) less in the fourth quarter than the three previous average. The defense gave up nearly as many points in the 4th as any two other quarters combined, and in fact DID give up more points than in the 1st and 3rd. No other team in the league had a drop off like that. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

When you say, "no other team in the league had a drop off like that," is that a statistical fact or are you just making conversation?

It makes sense that any team would give up more points in the fourth quarter; opponents switch to 4-down offenses and teams with big leads start prioritizing protecting the sidelines/clock over allowing 1st downs in the middle of the field.  The question is whether other teams suffered a dropoff in offensive fourth-quarter production as MIA did, and where the Dolphins' offense ranks in fourth-quarter production compared to their defense.

Given that Miami finished 6th in points allowed but 20th in points scored, and that Miami's worst scoring quarter (on both sides of the ball) was the fourth quarter, it seems unlikely that the fourth-quarter defense was worse than the offense.  In fact, unless MIA's defense (through three quarters) was first in the league BY FAR, I don't think it's even possible.

[EKnight]

Spider- I'm not absolutely positive that they are dead last in terms of difference, but it is factually based. The stats come from NFLTeamrankings.com. Belive it or not, through the first half of the games, Miami had the 5th best defense in the entire league in terms of points allowed (8.8 ppg), and were 3rd in the league in the third quarter (3.1 ppg). They drop to 27th in the league in the 4th quarter points allowed. I'm not just pulling these numbers out of thin air. The defense really was that bad in the 4th quarter of most of the games last year. -EK

[Diehard_Dolfan]

Spider- I'm not absolutely positive that they are dead last in terms of difference, but it is factually based. The stats come from NFLTeamrankings.com. Belive it or not, through the first half of the games, Miami had the 5th best defense in the entire league in terms of points allowed (8.8 ppg), and were 3rd in the league in the third quarter (3.1 ppg). They drop to 27th in the league in the 4th quarter points allowed. I'm not just pulling these numbers out of thin air. The defense really was that bad in the 4th quarter of most of the games last year. -EK

If you watched Dolphins games last season it would be obvious this was true!  The offense didn't help the defense much but, the defense seemed to hit a wall in the 4th Qtr no matter what the offense did!  There were the same ole issues that have plagued us for yrs going back to Wanny... teams making adjustments and the Dolphins not making adjustments!    Sporano was too happy to go three and out and put it all on the defense... I think Miami's defensive stats bit them in the ass!   They depended too much on those stats for a team that IMO overachieved on defense... that's why the big fall off in the 4th Qtr of games.

[Spider-Dan]

Spider- I'm not absolutely positive that they are dead last in terms of difference, but it is factually based. The stats come from NFLTeamrankings.com.

NFLTeamrankings.com is a placeholder website with no content.

In any case, since you just cited the defense's fourth-quarter rank as #27 in the league, surely you should be able to tell us what the offense's rank in the same quarter was?  This is the third time I have asked for this information.

[MikeO]

And why did the Browns score the winning TD in the closing seconds?  Because the offense that supposedly had a "good game" kept settling for field goals.  They score touchdowns, this isn't even an issue.    The problem lies with quarterback play.  It's a passing league and the Dolphins didn't have any capable passers last season. 

Henne is gone, and hopefully come the end of training camp, Moore will be as well. 

The Dolphins defense gives up 280 yards in that game, only 70 yards rushing, just 210 passing and it's there fault for the loss....lol lol lol. It's un-friggin-real.  Downright laughable the logic some use. These are the people that keep Sports Talk Radio hosts in business. They call up with stupid stances like this and it gives the host and hundreds of other callers hours of material to pick on them and laugh at them.

That Cleveland game the offense racks up 369 yards of offense and can only muster ONE first half touchdown and settle for fist-pumping FG's all day. That's the REAL reason why they lost.  Marshall dropped touchdowns and poor QB play by Henne.

[EKnight]

NFLTeamrankings.com is a placeholder website with no content.

In any case, since you just cited the defense's fourth-quarter rank as #27 in the league, surely you should be able to tell us what the offense's rank in the same quarter was?  This is the third time I have asked for this information.

Sorry. I don't jump just because you say so. You could have easily looked it up yourself. Since you didn't, Miami's offense was 20th in the league in the first half and drops to 28th in the fourth quarter. So that means that while the offense DOES rank 8 places lower from halftime to fourth quarter, that's not nearly the same as the 21 spots the defense drops in the same time frame. -EK

[Pappy13]

When you say, "no other team in the league had a drop off like that," is that a statistical fact or are you just making conversation?

Doesn't matter really. He called your bluff and showed his proof. I think the onus is now on you to show a flaw in the stats or admit that he's got you there.

I tend to agree with him on this topic. Miami's defense tends to look good during the first 3 quarters of the game when the outcome of the game is still in doubt. When the competition NEEDS to score to either take the lead or extend their lead to win the game, they do so fairly regularly regardless of what the offense is or isn't doing.

[Spider-Dan]

Sorry. I don't jump just because you say so. You could have easily looked it up yourself.

I tried to, but the website you gave (nflteamrankings.com) is not a valid website.  It is a placeholder website used by squatters.  There is no data there.

Since you didn't, Miami's offense was 20th in the league in the first half and drops to 28th in the fourth quarter.

So let me see if I understand this correctly.  According to the stats that you just provided:

- Miami's fourth-quarter defense is ranked 27th
- Miami's fourth-quarter offense is ranked 28th

Did I miss something here?  Are we in some sort of parallel universe where 28th is better than 27th?

You keep talking about number of spots dropped as if that is a meaningful statistic.  Miami's offense was a lot worse than the defense for the first three quarters, and was only slightly worse (but still worse) in the fourth quarter.  And your conclusion from this is... blame the defense?

The mind boggles.

[Spider-Dan]

Doesn't matter really. He called your bluff and showed his proof. I think the onus is now on you to show a flaw in the stats or admit that he's got you there.

I am completely puzzled as to what you see as proof.  His stats showed that the defense was really good early in the game but became bad in the final quarter, and that the offense was bad throughout the entire game but played their worst in the fourth quarter.  How does this do anything to disprove the claim that the defensive side of the ball was doing much more to carry their weight?

I tend to agree with him on this topic. Miami's defense tends to look good during the first 3 quarters of the game when the outcome of the game is still in doubt.

Then you're using the same flawed logic he is.

When Miami's defense was cracking skulls during the first three quarters, the offense was sitting on their hands.  When it came to the fourth quarter, and the defense was tired and run down, the offense was getting even worse.

You're faulting the defense because they were carrying the team for only three quarters instead of all four.  That's ridiculous.