Rebranding: You buying it?

[Spider-Dan]

Maine, would you like to be completely defined by your past?

Ocho has spent the last year with the Belichick muzzle on.  We'll see how he acts in Miami.

[Diehard_Dolfan]

Okay so your theory is Brady is a WR killer.  

Moss's problem in 2010 and Ocho's problem in 2011 is that they had a horrible QB/bad system.  Of course that explains why he did such great things in Minn they cut him and in Tenn they didn't re-sign him.

Seriously?

Seriously?

You got that from my post?

My point was Moss still has ability to get open and his last yr with the Pats he wasn't targeted much... maybe teams rolled coverage to him more which took him away... which many teams did!   Teams weren't going to let Moss beat them deep and usually blanket covered him.   Also, with the emergence of the Pat's TE's their passing focus changed to match up problems the TE's cost defenses...     

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Seriously?

You got that from my post?

My point was Moss still has ability to get open and his last yr with the Pats he wasn't targeted much... maybe teams rolled coverage to him more which took him away... which many teams did!   Teams weren't going to let Moss beat them deep and usually blanket covered him.   Also, with the emergence of the Pat's TE's their passing focus changed to match up problems the TE's cost defenses...     

No he didn't have the ability to still get open, nor were teams blanketing him.  That is why he had a grand total of 13 receptions in Minn and 6 in Tenn. 

The emergance of the TE centric offense didn't occur until after Moss left.

Bottom line: if Moss was still a serious deep threat BB would not have traded him to the Vikings. And if Ocho was still a deep threat he would not have been cut. 

[Spider-Dan]

Seriously?

You got that from my post?

My point was Moss still has ability to get open and his last yr with the Pats he wasn't targeted much...

What is your explanation for why MIN cut him and TEN did not attempt to re-sign him?

Or for why he performed so poorly with both of them?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Would you like to be completely defined by your past?

Isn't that how everyone is defined? 

If you apply for a job, they ask about your past.

If you run for office, you are elected based on what you did in the past.

Kids get into college based on what they did in the past (high school).

When you propose to someone to get married they say yes or no based on what you did on PAST dates. 

[Diehard_Dolfan]

No he didn't have the ability to still get open, nor were teams blanketing him.  That is why he had a grand total of 13 receptions in Minn and 6 in Tenn. 

The emergance of the TE centric offense didn't occur until after Moss left.

Bottom line: if Moss was still a serious deep threat BB would not have traded him to the Vikings. And if Ocho was still a deep threat he would not have been cut. 

I meant bracket coverage not blanket... 

Maybe because Moss was never a great route runner... and those teams didn't have a QB to get the ball to him anyway!  To say teams don't or didn't bracket cover Moss or roll coverage to him is just idiotic!   You can easily watch film and see teams were taking Moss away in his last season with New England... Since he's never been a great route runner but used his athletic ability it's easier to take him away then when he was younger.

Moss stills runs the 40 in sub 4.4 speed so to think he can't still run past someone is insane!

[Diehard_Dolfan]

What is your explanation for why MIN cut him and TEN did not attempt to re-sign him?

Or for why he performed so poorly with both of them?

1.Did either of those teams have an elite QB? 
2.How about elite TE's?
3.Did either have any other talent to take away bracket coverage away from Moss?

how about "NO" to all three!

[Diehard_Dolfan]

Here's quotes from the 49's OTA's on Randy Moss!

"Randy caught a pass the other day, I mean -— man, come on," Davis said. "There were three guys on him in practice, and he went up with two hands, and he looked like the old Randy Moss that I used to watch when I was in high school and college."   -Vernon Davis

"In the classroom he sits in the front row, he soaks up the knowledge and always gives the feedback, too, which he’s more than capable of doing," Harbaugh said. "He's like a coach." Moss' football IQ has always been underrated, and Harbaugh says he still "eats up so much ground with every step" at age 35. Harbaugh also said Moss' "attendance has been impeccable" during the offseason. -49ers coach Jim Harbaugh

"I don't think he lost a step at all," said Donte Whitner. "He still looks the same ... He's running the same as he's always run. His body looks like a younger Randy Moss, so I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do on the football field." Added QB Alex Smith, "It's tough to tell that he missed a year of football. I certainly don't see any rust."

Randy Moss problem has always been his drive or lack thereof... his consistency is his problem! 

[Spider-Dan]

1.Did either of those teams have an elite QB? 
2.How about elite TE's?
3.Did either have any other talent to take away bracket coverage away from Moss?

how about "NO" to all three!

...which makes those teams very similar to the Miami Dolphins!

What was your point, again?

[Spider-Dan]

Here's quotes from the 49's OTA's on Randy Moss!

Hey, do you know where I can find the quotes from DEN and SEA players saying, "Man, Jerry Rice just doesn't have what it takes to play in this league anymore... he should do himself a favor and retire"?

Of course his teammates are going to say that he looks good.  What do you expect them to say?  "I don't know, he looked a lot faster back in New England, but I guess we can give him a chance..."

[Diehard_Dolfan]

...which makes those teams very similar to the Miami Dolphins!

What was your point, again?

Are you serious?

What does Moss have to do with Miami?

You asked questions about why Moss didn't do well in Min and Tenn... now you've switched that to Miami?

  LOL!

My point is that some of you are never happy!  It doesn't matter what Miami does or tries to accomplish... you'll find someway to trash the decision!  Then some of you and I'm speaking to you directly!  Just love to debate for the sake of debating... you ask me a question I answer it now you flip the question...  SMH!

[Spider-Dan]

It would be great if you could follow your own point.

YOU are the one who insisted that Moss is relevant to the discussion.  Moss went from underperforming in NE, a team with all of the attributes you just listed, to two weak teams (MIN and TEN) with none of those things.  And he still sucked with those clubs!

Ocho is doing the same thing.  What, exactly, is the argument you are making as to why he will not suffer the same fate?  That Randy Moss really isn't washed up, after having been let go by both the top and the bottom teams?

[MikeO]

Ocho ran his mouth about punching someone.  Marshall's actions might have lead to someone's life being taken.

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2011/04/brandon_marshall_murder_darrent_williams.php

Meanwhile, Ocho has otherwise calmed down while problems continue to follow Marshall.  Funny how that works.

Bingo!

Marshall has serious distractions involving police and stuff and court dates and all that nonsense. Ocho is just a reality show/Camera whore.

Ochocinco doesn't even drink liquor. Comparing the 2 is unfair. They aren't even on the same level of person or get in the same type of issues.

[Landshark]

Ocho ran his mouth about punching someone.  Marshall's actions might have lead to someone's life being taken.

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2011/04/brandon_marshall_murder_darrent_williams.php

Meanwhile, Ocho has otherwise calmed down while problems continue to follow Marshall.  Funny how that works.

Might have?  More like his actions certainly did.  Marshall and his cousin got drunk and got on the bad side of a high ranking gang member and his crew.  All the evidence suggests that Marshall was the intended target that night. 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184186/8/index.htm

My question is, what were these celebrity millionaire athletes doing in a nightclub where gang members were hanging out?  If they wanted to drink and party and celebrate the new year, the best thing to do would have been to go to a private club or rent out a place and invite only people close to them.  They could've afforded it with the money they had.

[MaineDolFan]

Maine, would you like to be completely defined by your past?

I'm not the one railing on and on about both, though, am I?  You're constantly bringing up one while leaving out the other.  I'm pointing out Marshall wasn't an angel (while equally pointing out I liked THAT guy too).

You clearly have a hair across your back side for Cinco - we got it.