This is the year that Tebow gets exposed.

[EKnight]

What you said, though, was that his kicker was hitting 60 yard field goals, like he just went out and did it every week. That wasn't the case. He hit ONE very long (59 yarder). This is what I mean by rewriting the history- you remembered the kicker winning multiple games with some sort of ridiculous achievement, when in reality, Prater is currently the most accurate kicker in National Football League history for field goals of 50 yards or more, having hit 12 of 16 (or 75%) from that range. That's what Prater does- he's made a career out of it, so it's not like it's as spectacular a feat as if, say, Carpenter did it.  So, it's Tebow's fault that he has a great kicker? The guy's not a very good QB, but let's not rewrite history to make him worse or take anything he actually DID acomplish and diminish it. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

This is a great example of what I mean. No, his kicker didn't hit any 60 yard field goals. He hit 4 from over 50, absolutely, but as usual, when people dislike Tebow, the actual facts get a bit distorted to rewrite history. They guy won games. A lot of games. I would venture to say 90% of them were flat ugly wins, but he took a 1-4 team to the playoffs, and won a first round game with his arm. There's no denying that.

This is a great example of what I mean.  Tim Tebow threw for 236 yards and 1 TD through 4 quarters, and won OT on a pass that went 20 yards through the air and 60 yards on the ground (after a broken tackle).  You classify this as "winning the game with his arm."

What you said, though, was that his kicker was hitting 60 yard field goals, like he just went out and did it every week. That wasn't the case. He hit ONE very long (59 yarder). This is what I mean by rewriting the history- you remembered the kicker winning multiple games with some sort of ridiculous achievement, when in reality, Prater is currently the most accurate kicker in National Football League history for field goals of 50 yards or more, having hit 12 of 16 (or 75%) from that range. That's what Prater does- he's made a career out of it, so it's not like it's as spectacular a feat as if, say, Carpenter did it.

So, to summarize:  MikeO says that Tebow won a lot of games on account of having a kicker with ridiculous range and accuracy, and your counterpoint is... that his kicker is the most accurate of all time past 50 yards.  Um, I guess we all agree, then?

[EKnight]

This is a great example of what I mean.  Tim Tebow threw for 236 yards and 1 TD through 4 quarters, and won OT on a pass that went 20 yards through the air and 60 yards on the ground (after a broken tackle).  You classify this as "winning the game with his arm."

Against a team that gave up 172 yards per game through the air- best in the entire NFL- yes, I'd say that's winning the game with his arm. Now here's the really great part Spider- you don't have to agree with me. In fact, we obviously disagree. Let's stop here. Engaging in another endless argument trying to prove me wrong isn't going to change my mind, so there's no need to bother derailing another thread. Let's just end the convo here. You said your piece; I said mine. -EK

[MikeO]

So, to summarize:  MikeO says that Tebow won a lot of games on account of having a kicker with ridiculous range and accuracy, and your counterpoint is... that his kicker is the most accurate of all time past 50 yards.  Um, I guess we all agree, then?

Thank you! lol

[EKnight]

Thank you! lol

Mike he had 4 game winning field goals. What about the other 4 games? Tebow had NOTHING to do with a 1-4 team making the playoffs and winning against Pittsburgh. Got it. -EK

[MikeO]

What you said, though, was that his kicker was hitting 60 yard field goals, like he just went out and did it every week. That wasn't the case.

And you make it sound like he was winning games with his arm every week. And that wasn't the case!!

[EKnight]

Nope- he won 1 game with his arm last year, that being the playoff game. I'm interested where I implied he won "games" with his arm? I said he won 1 game- 1- with his arm. Don't rewrite the history of this thread like you did the Broncos' season. We're clearly on opposing sides of this debate; let's not rehash the multiple threads that have already been written about it. -EK

[MikeO]

Mike he had 4 game winning field goals. What about the other 4 games? Tebow had NOTHING to do with a 1-4 team making the playoffs and winning against Pittsburgh. Got it. -EK

Nobody said he had NOTHING to do with it. Don't twist words. He made necessary plays late to put his team in position to win,  but he also had a lot of help and luck to deny that is just putting your head in the sand.

[MikeO]

Now THAT'S funny.

The fake Mangold quotes really made me laugh!

[Spider-Dan]

Against a team that gave up 172 yards per game through the air- best in the entire NFL- yes, I'd say that's winning the game with his arm.

...except that that "172 yards per game" figure was when they had their starting FS (and lead tackler on the team) Ryan Clark, who was coincidentally on the sidelines in the game (to say nothing of their multiple other injuries on defense in Hampton, Keisel, Timmons).  I mean, if you're the kind of person who thinks a safety makes an impact on your pass defense.

I suppose you could also say that HOU won their division for the first time last year because they finally figured out how to shut down IND's pass game.  They held IND to an average of under 200 yards passing per game.  What a dominating performance against Peyton Manning's Colts!

Now here's the really great part Spider- you don't have to agree with me. In fact, we obviously disagree. Let's stop here.

You aren't required to reply to any of my posts at all, you know.  This message board is completely voluntary.

[Brian Fein]

I'm curious... Why do you love Tebow so much? You talk like he's your cousin or something.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I've always thought the Dolphins should have grabbed him and converted him to a TE or FB/HB. He's a guy that makes people miss in the running game.

He didn't want to be a TE or FB/HB he wanted to be a QB.  

[EKnight]

I'm curious... Why do you love Tebow so much? You talk like he's your cousin or something.

I'm curious why everyone hates the guy so much. This board talks like he killed someone's cousin. Why can't people just be happy for someone's success without acting like a bunch of little bitches about it? Yeah. A bunch of little bitches. -EK

[MikeO]

I'm curious why everyone hates the guy so much. This board talks like he killed someone's cousin. Why can't people just be happy for someone's success without acting like a bunch of little bitches about it? Yeah. A bunch of little bitches. -EK

You rip the entire Dolphins secondary and say they all suck. That is ok but Tebow is somehow off limits??? Don't get the logic.  Can't you be happy for the success of Sean Smith, Rashad Jones, and Chris Clemons? lol lol

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Tebow is a good not great QB.  It was a nobrainer to choose Manning over him, Sanchez vs. Tebow is not so clear.