Shame of the Game @Houston

[EKnight]

For these reasons, many believed the Dolphins selected the youngster with the No. 8 overall pick of the draft as more of a project. He had talent, but he was too raw to play early in his rookie year  if at all.

Reading comprehension matters. "If at all" indicates he likely has no business playing "at all." See that? As usual skip the parts that don't back your POV. By the way, NFL.com already has him as the first QB to get benched this year- likely after week 2:
"Here's my take on the first three benchings of 2012:

1. Ryan Tannehill , Miami Dolphins (benched after Week 2): Here's a team doing everything it said it wouldn't. I understand that Matt Moore isn't a beautiful fit for Mike Sherman's offense, but he's the smart fit."
http://m.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000057971/
He's likely going to be pulled for Matt Moore and you don't see that as problematic? The tipped ball issue was a problem last year at A&M and he's not improved at all and you don't see that as a problem? Bet if it was, say, Tebow with these numbers you'd kill the guy. I don't think even Tebow ever had a 3.1 total QBR!!
Lol, yeah the whooooole world agrees that you can't make an assessment off of one game. This guys gives him TWO before he's benched. Total QB rating of 3.1, but you keep supporting him. -EK

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

The three turnovers by Tannehill gets my vote.

By the way Marshall looked great yesterday.....I'm thinking he will all season being as he was by far our most talented receiver even if he did drop passes he is still far better then the talentless shit we have now!!!!!

[Spider-Dan]

For these reasons, many believed the Dolphins selected the youngster with the No. 8 overall pick of the draft as more of a project. He had talent, but he was too raw to play early in his rookie year if at all.

Reading comprehension matters. "If at all" indicates he likely has no business playing "at all." See that?  As usual skip the parts that don't back your POV.

Are you really this horrible at reading comprehension?  I tried to help you by bolding some key words above.

If Goldberg was questioning whether Tannehill should ever be allowed to play in the NFL, why did he later recommend switching to Moore so Tannehill can "learn on the sidelines?"  Why would he advise them to "help set up the future by bringing the rookie along slowly" if he believes, as you do, that Tannehill is a failed pick?

For native English speakers, Goldberg's meaning is obvious: Tannehill is too raw to play early in THIS SEASON, if at all THIS SEASON.  If only your troubles were simply the result of a language barrier... but alas, they are not.

By the way, NFL.com already has him as the first QB to get benched this year- likely after week 2:

Does it have him as the first QB to be cut?
No?
Then your point escapes me.

Bet if it was, say, Tebow with these numbers you'd kill the guy. I don't think even Tebow ever had a 3.1 total QBR!!

Why do you make it so easy?  Let's see, we have to go all the way back to... the last regular-season game Tebow started. (link)

2011 Week 17, win and you're in, DEN at home against the mighty 6-9 Chiefs:

Tim Tebow posts an impressive QBR of 2.1.

To recap:  Ryan Tannehill plays the first game of his NFL career on the road in Week 1 against a top-tier opponent with the #2 passing defense in the league last year, and posts a 3.1 QBR.  This means he is an unmitigated bust.

Tim Tebow can guarantee a division title in Week 17 by winning at home against the last-place Chiefs, and he posts a monster QBR of 2.1.  He's still awesome, though.

[CF DolFan]

No, you did not.

The first writer you cited (Rob Goldberg) said, "If the team turns to Matt Moore, Tannehill can learn on the sidelines while getting limited playing time."  The second writer (John Clayton) said, "It still makes you wonder why Dolphins coach Joe Philbin didn't start veteran Matt Moore until he sorted out what he had at wide receiver."

Both of those statements (which strongly imply that Tannehill should be given the nod at starter, just not right now) are light-years removed from your claims that Tannehill is a failed pick and should not have been selected by the Dolphins.

Your personal bias (along with wishful thinking?) is twisting the reasonable statements of others into crazy knee-jerk reactionary moves.  When other posters say, "Tannehill had a horrible game" or columnists say, "Tannehill is starting much sooner than he should be," that is not remotely the same thing as saying "Tannehill is a bust and should never have been drafted."

Reading comprehension matters.

The radio guys said yesterday that national media would look at the stats and kill us yet they felt we played well for almost 70% of the game. It isn't like we don't know this. Most national guys make a living giving opinions based on stats and we all know that stats are both manipulative and deceiving.

Also wanted to say all of his batted balls are on three step drops. Do you know why we are doing three step drops? Beacause our O-line can't block and our receivers can't get open. Who's fault is it that our oline can't block and our receivers can't get open?

[EKnight]

That's fine if you want to blame the Oline. Explain to me why it was such an issue for Tannehill at A&M before he ever became a Dolphin and why it didn't seem to plague other Miami QBs in the preseason like it did Tannehill so I can blame the Oline too! I'll be awaiting an explanation from anyone who can reconcile this, so I can be a good little fan and not question Tannehill any longer. Someone explain it to me so I won't bash the first first round QB taken since Marino (which apparently means no matter how bad he sucks, he's untouchable by fan criticism) any more and I can go quietly about my business of being happy they wasted a first round pick on this guy in silence.

And Spider, you make it too freaking easy! I knew as soon as I said Tebow's name you'd be hot on Google because a) you have nothing better to do than spend your entire day trying to start internet arguments, and b) irrespective of which QB actually had a worse rating, I knew you couldn't pass up the chance to jump on Tebow's shit AGAIN. So tell me- since you pointed out how bad Tebow sucked after his first start (or was it his first few? Because that's splitting hairs and makes ZERO difference), is Tannehill, with a TQBR of a whopping 1 point more really immune to the same scrutiny? Aren't you always asking for consistency when people debate you? Where's yours? Tebow's 2.1 or Tannehill's 3.1- they both suck, and you had no issue lambasting Tebow from the get go, so why not the same approach with an equally awful Tannehill? Oh...right...cause then you couldn't argue with me. -EK

[Pappy13]

I don't think anyone thinks it's not an issue, we just don't think it's ONLY Tannehill's issue. The offensive line believes they were partly to blame. The coaches think they were partly to blame. The recievers think they were partly to blame. Tannehill thinks he's was partly to blame. There's PLENTY of blame to go around and then there's the fact that Houston is possibly the best in the league at batting down balls and it's just that most of us don't see why you're insisting it's ALL on Tannehill. That's it in a nutshell. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it flies in the face of common thinking when it comes to batted balls. Batted balls aren't SOLELY the responsibility of the QB. Now if Tannehill was say 5-10 and throwing sidearm, THEN you might have a valid argument that it could be an issue for him, but he's 6-4 and has a high release, so there's nothing to suggest that this isn't just a minor issue mostly to do with him locking onto receivers. He's a rookie. Rookies do that. Even the BEST ones. So to suggest that it means he's not ready to play in the NFL just appears to be sour grapes on your part that Miami took him in the first place rather than based on sound judgement. Mr best pure QB to come out of college in a decade had 3 INT's as well and they WEREN'T on batted balls. Does that mean that Luck is a bust too?

[EKnight]

What part of the following is lost on you:
*Tannehill had multiple passes tipped/batted for INTs his senior year; over half his INTs came from tipped or batted balls.
*no other Dolphin had tipped/batted ball issues in the preseason when Tannehill had four in ONE HALF against Carolina
*he had three more tipped for INTs Sunday, and 2 additional ones batted away

The ONLY common thread between these three things is Tannehill. He didn't have Miami's offensive line or receivers in college so stop already with "the line is to blame." BS! It was a problem before he was a Phin. Moore completely sucks but he didn't have this problem, so what- the line and receivers all conspired to make Tannehill look bad and get passes tipped but didn't do it for other QBs? The only people with sour grapes here are the ones who are having to come to realize what I said before he was drafted- BAD IDEA! Now that he is showing why he's a bad idea, it sucks to have gotten all giddy for him. Well I pointed out all  the tips in the preseason and was told "oh it's preseason, it doesn't count and it doesn't matter." Bullshit it doesn't matter when the guy is still doing it- and he's the ONLY Miami QB doing it. -EK

[Pappy13]

^^There's no point in us debating this EK, because the fact is that you're right for this week. If it continues to be a problem for Tannehill for his career then you'll be right about that too, but I'm not willing to conceed that just yet. I'd like to see him play a few more games and see if he's able to overcome it. I think it's a highly correctable problem that will be sorted out in time. You may be right that he won't ever correct it, but I think that's being awfully sure about something without a whole lot of evidence to back it up. You were awfully damn sure that Ocho Cinco would be the best WR the Dolphins had this year too and you were wrong about that. You could be wrong about this.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Spider-Dan]

And Spider, you make it too freaking easy! I knew as soon as I said Tebow's name you'd be hot on Google because a) you have nothing better to do than spend your entire day trying to start internet arguments, and b) irrespective of which QB actually had a worse rating, I knew you couldn't pass up the chance to jump on Tebow's shit AGAIN.

Are you saying that you say false stuff on purpose, or that you just don't care whether the things you say are true or not?

You know, you could have saved both of us time by making the tiniest effort to check your facts before you mash on the keyboard and click Post.

So tell me- since you pointed out how bad Tebow sucked after his first start (or was it his first few? Because that's splitting hairs and makes ZERO difference), is Tannehill, with a TQBR of a whopping 1 point more really immune to the same scrutiny?

Wait a minute... there is "ZERO difference" between Tannehill's first start in Week 1 of his first year in the NFL, and Tebow's 14th start in Week 17 of his second year in the league?  It sounds like you're saying that a quarterback learns absolutely nothing from spending over a full season's worth of games on the sideline learning the pro game.  Please elaborate.

Aren't you always asking for consistency when people debate you? Where's yours? Tebow's 2.1 or Tannehill's 3.1- they both suck, and you had no issue lambasting Tebow from the get go, so why not the same approach with an equally awful Tannehill?

Did I classify Tim Tebow as a bust after 1 half of his first NFL game?
No?
Then I am perfectly happy with my level of consistency, sir.

But while we're on the subject of brazen hypocrites... I'd love to hear why you give Tebow praise as a "top 10" QB while you immediately declare Tannehill an unsalvageable failure after less than one full game.

[EKnight]

Already addressed the Tebow thing. If you're too dense to understand that, then that's on you. I also said there's zero difference between "after his first start (or was it his first few?)." It's right there in black and white- no one said anything about Tebow's 14th start. If you can bash Tebow from the get go, why can I not do the same for Tannehill? And just to clarify- this was your quote after Tebow had started two games last year, and people said he sucked:

I'd say seven of eight quarters makes them right, yes.

So that's it huh? Can't judge Tannehill after four quarters, because you looooove him! But since you dislike Tebow, eight quarters is fine. Talk about a hypocrite- how do you not choke on the word? I do say though- Excellent- I'll look for your evaluation after this week's game. Regarding my evaluation of Tannehill being crap "after less than one full game," which you're SOOOO hung up on- news flash: I said he sucked before they drafted him. He's done nothing on the field to change that opinion. I'd only be a hypocrite if I said he sucked coming out of college and now that he's losing games in the pros I started loving him. I've been consistent as gravity about him throughout. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

If you can bash Tebow from the get go, why can I not do the same for Tannehill?

And of course, by "from the get go," you mean "during his second year in the league."  Got it.

So that's it huh? Can't judge Tannehill after four quarters, because you looooove him! But since you dislike Tebow, eight quarters is fine.

Hmmm, where to start....

- the "seven of eight quarters" quote was after the 16 NFL quarters Tebow had already played in the previous season (4 as backup, 12 as starter)
- those "seven of eight quarters" were after Tebow had been in the NFL learning the pro game for over a year and a half

So I'll make you a deal: if, by end of next season, Tannehill finishes with a QBR worse than 30th (as one Mr. Tebow did last year), I will happily concede that he was a bust.  And if he finishes better than that, then you'll have to concede that he was a better QB than Tebow.  Deal?

Regarding my evaluation of Tannehill being crap "after less than one full game," which you're SOOOO hung up on- news flash: I said he sucked before we drafted him.

So, in other words, you made up your mind before he had even taken a snap in the NFL.  Check.

But you're sidestepping the issue.  I have twice explained why I think Tebow sucks but have not yet issued a verdict on Tannehill, while you have yet to explain how you can categorize Tannehill as a bust after less than one game, yet enthusiastically praise the QB who finished 31st in the league in QBR.

[EKnight]

I haven't sidestepped anything. Best deal you could offer me is to just quit responding to my posts because no matter what anyone EVER says, you can't be wrong. Let's set the record straight though because you're not wiggling out of this one with another semantics argument.

1. The eight quarters thing was quoted in its entirety and had NOTHING to do with any previous play. Your statement- word for word, and using the words YOU wrote (if you actually MEANT something else, you should have been clearer- that's not my fault): "I'd say seven of eight quarters makes them right, yes." not seven of his last eight, not seven of the quarters he's played this year. You jumped on the bash Tebow bandwagon just like everyone else and now your approach doesn't fit your current argument so you want to backpedal.
2. I don't care what your evaluation of Tannehill is at the end of next season. He was drafted MUCH higher than Tebow because the expectations are different. No one expected Tebow to surplant Orton when he was drafted. People laughed at the pick. Tannehill is supposed to be the QB that finally turns Miami around. So far EVERYTHING he's shown is that he's Henne V. 2.0. Poor decisons, turns the ball over, stares down his receivers, can't get in the end zone. He should be held to the same standards Henne was held to when everyone said he sucked. This crap about "he's just a poor little rookie," is negated by the fact that he was taken 8th overall, indicating his perceived talent should bely his inexperince. If it takes you two years of his bad reads, tipped balls, and no TDs to figure out that's a bust, mayb football isn't really your thing. Perhaps checkers is more your speed.
3. Did I make up my mind before he took a snap? Duh! That's what people do with college prospects- every person here probably did the same thing when Ted Ginn was taken. They said, "well tha was dumb. Waste of a pick. He sucks." Same was said about Pat White. Tannehill suddenly shot up the draft boards a month before the draft without taking a snap. I have no idea what that was about, but the tapes of him I watched didn't change. He was an average at best college QB with a tipped ball issue that I have been railing on for months. Saying it makes no sense to judge him before he played is assanine. The whole draft is built on the idea of evaluating talent BEFORE they take an NFL snap. Afterwards it's not a draft- it's free agency.
4. Last time on the Tebow thing because at this point you're clearly trolling. I've already stated on this forum that in retrospect I was caught up in the whole Tebow mania and I was wrong. Now it doesn't matter how many times you keep bringing it up, the issue has been addressed. Unlike you, I actually can admit when I'm wrong. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

1. The eight quarters thing was quoted in its entirety and had NOTHING to do with any previous play. Your statement- word for word, and using the words YOU wrote (if you actually MEANT something else, you should have been clearer- that's not my fault): "I'd say seven of eight quarters makes them right, yes." not seven of his last eight, not seven of the quarters he's played this year.

The timestamp on that post is October 30, 2011.  Tebow had played 26 quarters (20 as a starter) at that point, and 8 as a starter that season.  Can you please inform me which 8 quarters you have arbitrarily decided that I was referring to?  Was it the first eight quarters that Tebow played, nearly a year before I made that statement?  Was it the first eight quarters he played as a starter in DEN (the same)?

Or, perhaps, was I referring to the eight quarters as a starter for Tebow that season, which just happened to be right before (and technically, during) that post?  Please let me know what you have decided, so I can attempt to explain the thought process you have assigned to me.

2. I don't care what your evaluation of Tannehill is at the end of next season. He was drafted MUCH higher than Tebow because the expectations are different. No one expected Tebow to surplant Orton when he was drafted. People laughed at the pick. Tannehill is supposed to be the QB that finally turns Miami around. So far EVERYTHING he's shown is that he's Henne V. 2.0. Poor decisons, turns the ball over, stares down his receivers, can't get in the end zone. He should be held to the same standards Henne was held to when everyone said he sucked.

I agree.

Henne had over two full seasons (that would be seasons, not quarters) to prove himself.  I am happy to hold Tannehill to that standard.

3. Did I make up my mind before he took a snap? Duh! That's what people do with college prospects- every person here probably did the same thing when Ted Ginn was taken. They said, "well tha was dumb. Waste of a pick. He sucks."

But here's what they DIDN'T do: log on to the Internet after two quarters of the first game and say, "See, I was proven right!"  Because one half of the first game doesn't tell you a damned thing!

If Ryan Tannehill had passed for two TDs and no INTs in the first half, would you have logged on at halftime and posted that he was obviously worth the pick and is clearly the next Marino?  Evaluating a player's career path after two quarters of play is asinine.

4. Last time on the Tebow thing because at this point you're clearly trolling. I've already stated on this forum that in retrospect I was caught up in the whole Tebow mania and I was wrong.

...!

At what point between the Miracle Playoff Victory and today did you "admit" that you were wrong about Tebow?  I am rather shocked to hear of this development, because it seems like instead of repeatedly defending Tebow over and over (as you just did in your last post!), you would just say, "I have already conceded that Tebow sucks" and be done with it.