Replacement Refs [merged x2]

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Both teams have the same refs and the same chances of getting bad calls....deal with it!

Here is another difference between the regulars and the replacement.  There have been many games with the regular refs where all the wrong calls went the same way.  I have seen games where it was pretty obvious the ref was a Colts or Steelers fan.  So far of all the games I have seen the wrong calls seem to be even.  Not withstanding the big brewhaha over the ref fan that didn't ref the Saints game.   

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

Anyone notice the NFL brought in teal shirted officials to help the on field guys get the rules right? 

I noticed it on the sideline week one while at the Cardinals game. My buddy and I were trying to figure out who the hell "the guy in the teal shirt" was. We figured out later as we had the 12 minute delay figuring out the 4th timeout for the Seahawks when he came onto the field!!!!

[Fins4ever]

Yes, there is a learning curve to officiating. I would have preferred seeing the regular college refs come in, but it is what it is.

I detest an union holding an organization hostage because of collusion and would like to individually kick every Chicago's teachers ass for leaving the kids for their own personal agenda. BASTARDS! BTW, Chicago ranks 1st in teacher pay and near last in test scores. Nice!

 My thought! FUCK EM all! The regular refs are already making excellent $$$$$$$$$$$$ for 20 days a year and the teachers union (Obama's baby) are so friggin incompetent, it is unreal!!! Now they want more money and a pension. Like I said, FUCKEM!       

[Spider-Dan]

I detest an union holding an organization hostage because of collusion and would like to individually kick every Chicago's teachers ass for leaving the kids for their own personal agenda.

You do understand that the NFL has locked out the referees, which is exactly the opposite of a strike, right?  The refs would have been happy to work under the same conditions they already had.

Let me guess:

 - if it's a strike, it's the union's fault
 - if it's a lockout, it's also the union's fault

[MikeO]

Yes, there is a learning curve to officiating. I would have preferred seeing the regular college refs come in, but it is what it is.

I detest an union holding an organization hostage because of collusion and would like to individually kick every Chicago's teachers ass for leaving the kids for their own personal agenda. BASTARDS! BTW, Chicago ranks 1st in teacher pay and near last in test scores. Nice!

 My thought! FUCK EM all! The regular refs are already making excellent $$$$$$$$$$$$ for 20 days a year and the teachers union (Obama's baby) are so friggin incompetent, it is unreal!!! Now they want more money and a pension. Like I said, FUCKEM!       

1) You won't get regular college refs because most of the regular NFL refs all have another part-time job running the college refs for the major conferences (SEC, Big10, Pac10, Big East, ACC...etc). So, they won't let "their guys" help the NFL when they themselves are being LOCKED OUT by the NFL. One bit of leverage the regular refs have.

2) This has little to do with Unions and more to do with the NFL. This is a LOCKOUT, the union and its refs are more than willing to go to work. They aren't allowed. So any "anti-union" rant really doesn't apply here.

Steve Young said it best on ESPN, the NFL has inelastic demand, they know the fans are total sheep and will watch and buy tickets to NFL games no matter who the refs are. You could make stoned, air-headed teenagers the refs and people will tune in. The NFL has no reason to ever buckle and since they began this with a "lockout" (once again NOT a strike) its up the the NFL to fix their own mess.

[Phishfan]

1) You won't get regular college refs because most of the regular NFL refs all have another part-time job running the college refs for the major conferences (SEC, Big10, Pac10, Big East, ACC...etc). So, they won't let "their guys" help the NFL when they themselves are being LOCKED OUT by the NFL. One bit of leverage the regular refs have.

 

Where did you get this? I'm not sure it is correct. The reason they don't have big time college refs is because (and this is assumption) they know this situation is temporary. Who would leave being a regular SEC/Big 12/ Big 10/etc. position for a temporary time in the NFL. I'm sure their league will not guarantee their return.

[Fins4ever]

You do understand that the NFL has locked out the referees, which is exactly the opposite of a strike, right?  The refs would have been happy to work under the same conditions they already had.

Let me guess:

 - if it's a strike, it's the union's fault
 - if it's a lockout, it's also the union's fault

I appreciate you pointing out the difference between a strike and lockout. I was aware of that. What you have to understand is the NFL made the refs a "more than fair" offer before the lockout. IMO, the refs locked themselves out.

I believe the solution is to hire FT refs with salaries comparable to what the regulars made last year with benefits. They become employees of the NFL. In the off season they train and recruit new refs according to the attrition rate.   

I have had it with these guys making 165K for working 1 day a week for 20 weeks a year. FWIW, if you recall, the officiating was pretty pathetic last year. 

[Phishfan]

I believe the solution is to hire FT refs

I keep hearing about full time, but what are these guys going to do all week? I really do not see how the sport of football equates to full time officials. Teams only play once a week. Let's say that accounts for 8 hours of the weekend. Where does an officials time the rest of the week go to account for being full time?

[Dave Gray]

I just don't care about the replacement refs.  At all.

I don't care who is reffing the games -- it doesn't affect my enjoyment.  As much as this continues to be a story that networks are talking about, I just don't get the big deal.  I see why the NFL is concerned.  But all this about integrity of the game -- give me a break.  I think people re-write history and complained about how the regular refs were scrutinized so bad for the last few years.

The one thing that the replacement refs have to do:
1) Not let the game get away from them.
2) Not let the game take 4 hours.

Those things are starting to happen, arguably, but I think the replacement refs will get better, stricter, etc.  I'm sure they'll figure it out, but it's not like I'm not going to watch either way.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I keep hearing about full time, but what are these guys going to do all week? I really do not see how the sport of football equates to full time officials. Teams only play once a week. Let's say that accounts for 8 hours of the weekend. Where does an officials time the rest of the week go to account for being full time?

I am willing to be dollars to donuts they spend more than 8 hours per weekend on airplanes/at the airport.

Maybe if we had full time officals who each week flew  to a central location and spent Tue and Wed reviewing every play of all 16 games for both missed and correct calls we would have better (and more consitant officiating).  Then they could either have Thur and Friday off before heading out Sat for Sunday's game.  Folks who ref Thur would have Sat Sun off.   

[Fins4ever]

I keep hearing about full time, but what are these guys going to do all week? I really do not see how the sport of football equates to full time officials. Teams only play once a week. Let's say that accounts for 8 hours of the weekend. Where does an officials time the rest of the week go to account for being full time?

Fair question. FT does not have to mean 40 hrs. 52 weeks. It could be 3 days a week for 6 months. Time not spent on an actual game could be spent watching film, keeping in shape and training younger refs. Baseball has umpire schools, why not the NFL. IMO, the umps blow the refs away in making the right calls.

The other option is what we have now, and it ain't working!

I find it ironic that while technology has improved (instant replay, 100 camera angles, slow motion...), the level of officiating has gotten worse.  

[Spider-Dan]

I appreciate you pointing out the difference between a strike and lockout. I was aware of that. What you have to understand is the NFL made the refs a "more than fair" offer before the lockout. IMO, the refs locked themselves out.

No, they didn't "lock themselves out," because that would be a strike.  Are you saying that if the referees made the NFL a "more than fair offer" for increased referee compensation, and the NFL said, "No thanks, we'd rather stick with the compensation structure we are giving you now," you would then say that the NFL really created the strike?

Or is your position simply "labor is always at fault, no matter what"?

I have had it with these guys making 165K for working 1 day a week for 20 weeks a year.

Based on the number you just gave, the NFL pays approximately $58k per game for the 7 officials (combined).  The NFL currently receives over $4 billion per year in TV rights alone.  There are 512 regular-season games, 11 playoff games, and the Pro Bowl.  That means that these referees are officiating games that, in TV rights alone, generate over $7.8m per game.  And NFL revenues are only going up.

You will forgive me if I am not sympathetic to the league's attempts to try to squeeze the officials into taking less than what they have now.

FWIW, if you recall, the officiating was pretty pathetic last year.

When was the last time you saw the regular officials call a touchback on a kick that never made it past the 5-yard-line?

How about awarding a 4th timeout?

[Pappy13]

2) This has little to do with Unions and more to do with the NFL. This is a LOCKOUT, the union and its refs are more than willing to go to work. They aren't allowed. So any "anti-union" rant really doesn't apply here.

That's a little misleading. The refs were locked out by the NFL because they haven't come to an agreement with the NFL and don't have a contract. The NFL is perfectly willing to have the refs go back to work too as long as they both agree on a new contract.

[Pappy13]

I keep hearing about full time, but what are these guys going to do all week? I really do not see how the sport of football equates to full time officials. Teams only play once a week. Let's say that accounts for 8 hours of the weekend. Where does an officials time the rest of the week go to account for being full time?

Preparation. They have to constantly review the rules and make sure they know them. They review all the games and the calls that were made and why and whether or not they were called correctly or not, etc. There is plenty for them to do.

[Fins4ever]

No, they didn't "lock themselves out," because that would be a strike.  Are you saying that if the referees made the NFL a "more than fair offer" for increased referee compensation, and the NFL said, "No thanks, we'd rather stick with the compensation structure we are giving you now," you would then say that the NFL really created the strike?

Or is your position simply "labor is always at fault, no matter what"?
Based on the number you just gave, the NFL pays approximately $58k per game for the 7 officials (combined).  The NFL currently receives over $4 billion per year in TV rights alone.  There are 512 regular-season games, 11 playoff games, and the Pro Bowl.  That means that these referees are officiating games that, in TV rights alone, generate over $7.8m per game.  And NFL revenues are only going up.

You will forgive me if I am not sympathetic to the league's attempts to try to squeeze the officials into taking less than what they have now.
When was the last time you saw the regular officials call a touchback on a kick that never made it past the 5-yard-line?

How about awarding a 4th timeout?

We could debate this topic forever. Let me say this.... I spent four months doing research on the subject of organized labor and contract labor agreements for a graduate thesis (MBA). I started all the way back with the cigar workers through present day with G.M.  Ironically, I also married the daughter of one of the biggest union consultants in New York.

My conclusion was unions served a purpose long ago when working conditions were unsafe and wages were not fair. In the last 40-50 yrs. however, unions have caused inflationary business environments and unsustainable pensions. GM is the perfect example. Even with the bailout, it is only a matter of time until they either...A. get further concessions from the union in order to compete with cheaper labor, or B. Fail, or C. get another bailout from Joe Taxpayer (courtesy of China).

Seriously, I could write on this all day. Let's agree to disagree on this one. lol

PS. You would not believe the lavish life the union reps and heads live at the expense of the union members. My wife and I went on many "business conferences" with her dad at boring places like Disney World, Manhattan and Washington D.C.

Oh, in weak defense of the replacements. At least they have not screwed up the coin toss ...yet. lol