So about this embassy destruction ...

[CF DolFan]

What's your point of view? I'd request a poll but I'm sure I can't nail down every point of view.

My personal belief is to send troops and start showing the supposed movie at each of the embassies being attacked and then shoot every person who raises their hand in anger. I came to this feeling of defiance not because I approve of the movie but  1) I think the "reason" behind the destruction is BS and 2) freedom of speech is one of the most important freedoms in our way of life.

I mean this in all honesty.... most of you know my stance on homosexual marriages per se' but if our embassies were being attacked because the US allows the production of gay porn, gay TV shows or whatever else offends them I would feel the same.  Freedom of speech is one of our biggest freedoms even when it involves anger and hate and no one should be able to shut us up for having freedom in our own country.  If we were in their country forcing them to watch it would be different.

BTW I do not approve of the movie without even seeing it as it appears he tricked the actors. I can't think of any reason that would make that acceptable regardless of the content.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

And exactly how is this related to the Dolphins? 

It should be in off topic.

To address your post.

1.  I do agree freedom of speech is a vital part of our democracy.

2.  But that does not mean we should follow your plan of inciting people in OTHER countries.

That means we should defend our embassies, but we should not be playing the movie overseas. 

[Dave Gray]

I saw an interesting thing on this the other night on TV.

Basically, we take Freedom of Speech for granted.  We are just born with it and we're raised in an environment where everyone knows that if one person says something dumb that the government is not going to come haul him away.  We don't think for a second that our government is advocating what someone is saying simply by not arresting him for it. 

People in other countries just don't understand that.  ...even developed countries.  It's not just the banana republics of the world, but Germany, for example.  Great Britain....they don't have the same relationship with free speech that the USA does.  It is a very unique quality of our country (and a great one, as I'm sure we all can agree.)

So, when someone from the US creates something offensive or what is considered wrong, these other countries just don't understand that.  They feel that by not standing up to fight against someone offensive, that you therefore condone it.  So, where we see a few troublemakers making a Youtube video about Islam -- who cares? -- it's a few idiots; They see a political system protecting those that wage war with Islam.

They are wrong, make no doubt.  But they also can't help but be wrong.  They have no concept of what our freedoms mean. 

Unfortunately, I think that a lot of Americans don't understand what it means either.

[CF DolFan]

And exactly how is this related to the Dolphins? 

It should be in off topic.

To address your post.

1.  I do agree freedom of speech is a vital part of our democracy.

2.  But that does not mean we should follow your plan of inciting people in OTHER countries.

That means we should defend our embassies, but we should not be playing the movie overseas. 

Oops ... see how upset I am about this? I put it in the wrong place ....  

I agree about the incite thing. We just very quickly learned it was prompted by people with ulterior motives but yet I keep reading and seeing how it's all about the movie... as if we should do something to destroy the movie and kill the guy who made it.  I think we need to move on and deal with the reality of the situation. Many people hate us and no matter what, they want to destroy us. No matter what we do they will find a reason to justify it.

Dave ... I would agree with you but we are coming from two places. For the most part I feel people who engage in rioting are just looking for a excuse. Many people hate Americans. Some for legitimate reasons obviously but there are many who have no such reason. The hate is bred into them from birth and nothing we do can change that.

[bsmooth]

This pre planned attack and the protests about the movie are separate.

[Spider-Dan]

My personal belief is to send troops and start showing the supposed movie at each of the embassies being attacked and then shoot every person who raises their hand in anger.

[...]

If we were in their country forcing them to watch it would be different.

Isn't that what you just suggested?

[CF DolFan]

Isn't that what you just suggested?

That was the point. If they are going to kill and destroy then let's force them to deal with what they are bitching about. Obviously it isn't a rationale decision but many people are getting less tolerant about the US apologizing for freedoms. Other than weakening our country it's a dishonor to everyone who has fought for freedom in our country from George Washingon, MLK and even those who are fighting for gay rights. The more outside people try and force their ideals on us the more I feel like being "in your face" about it. Thank goodness we don't govern like that but I think we as a country can't allow outside zealots to continue to put us on the defense and make us feel we need to apologize all the time. We have enough zealots inside our own ranks that we have to try and keep between the lines.

[Dave Gray]

I wish we, as a nation, didn't respect religion as much as we do.  I believe in its constitutional protection, but I don't feel the need to protect people's feelings when it comes to wacky beliefs.  This goes for any religion, but Islam is at the forefront of that.

It seems that we're falling over ourselves to make sure everyone knows we're cool with Islam.  But at some point, enough is enough.  You can believe whatever you want, but our citizens have every right to call you out for being idiots and oppressive assholes.  I'd like to see us stand up and defend freedom of speech rather that spending time condemning a film we didn't even make.  If you don't want a picture of Mohammad, don't draw one, but that's your problem, not mine.

[bsmooth]

I wish we, as a nation, didn't respect religion as much as we do.  I believe in its constitutional protection, but I don't feel the need to protect people's feelings when it comes to wacky beliefs.  This goes for any religion, but Islam is at the forefront of that.

It seems that we're falling over ourselves to make sure everyone knows we're cool with Islam.  But at some point, enough is enough.  You can believe whatever you want, but our citizens have every right to call you out for being idiots and oppressive assholes.  I'd like to see us stand up and defend freedom of speech rather that spending time condemning a film we didn't even make.  If you don't want a picture of Mohammad, don't draw one, but that's your problem, not mine.

I would love people to realize that this is a sliver of the over 1 billion Muslims in the world taking part in this. The protests are being pushed by....al-Qaeda.

[badger6]

I wish we, as a nation, didn't respect religion as much as we do.  I believe in its constitutional protection, but I don't feel the need to protect people's feelings when it comes to wacky beliefs.  This goes for any religion, but Islam is at the forefront of that.

We shouldn't be protecting peoples feelings about anything. Everyone has different views and everyone has different ways of reacting to those views. If peoples feelings get hurt I guess it sucks to be them, life goes on.........

[bsfins]

Sort of around this topic....my random thoughts really...

I'm bothered that the few extremest (for a lack of better terms),seem to be able to cause so much havoc to such a wide area...

A couple of things have recently opened my eyes a bit recently...

Klitschko - The documentary running on HBO,about heavyweight boxers Vitali & Wladimir Klitschko.They showed where they lived in the Ukraine growing up,they talked about how they were told about America,how their Father was told,what America was like....The thing about cheese,and how they saw it when they came was totally different.

I have the same views,but in the opposite direction,to most of these countries.I'm taught,shown them all as bad,but in reality isn't so...

An article tweeted by a 3d motion graphics guy about the 3d program a lot of terrorists are using to spread their message,is the same one I use.Some of the examples they followed his tutorials to the letter...Searching for how to do a couple things,(I've ran across it a few times this year,but this was just this past week). It was a flame war between  An American,and someone from the middle east.(total assumptions by signatures,and what they said at the time,I can't find the post,and didn't read what started it.It was about 3d not political) The guy from the middle east posted a picture of masked men,burning an American flag..

The Jist of the American response was...Like that is supposed to bother me? A man hiding behind his computer,posting a picture of people hiding their faces,burning an American flag...Whatever...

I bring this all up...It's like the war on Drugs,we can't win.The extremest take offense at anything ever done to them,said,perceived or real.97% of Americans can't name where half these people are on a map,who they are,nor care. I feel like it's a one sided ...war...

My Happy go lucky side says...Well,show them that It's not true,and try to help them,etc,etc...My darker side says,We teach them,they take that knowledge use it to spread their hate,and kill us...

It worries me about the future

[badger6]

I bring this all up...It's like the war on Drugs,we can't win.The extremest take offense at anything ever done to them,said,perceived or real.97% of Americans can't name where half these people are on a map,who they are,nor care. I feel like it's a one sided ...war...

Let them sort it out or wipe them from existence. Really, I don't get why we fuck with these fruitcakes. Tell the countries in question that if they don't get their people under control and they fuck with us just one time that there will be repercussions. Everyone in the world waits for the US to fix their problems. The only realistic way we can fix it is to wipe em all out and be done with it. Likewise the war on drugs will never be won, not that it needs to be. Legalize all drugs and tax them.....

[CF DolFan]

We may go to serious war over this.  In their minds it's Islam versus Christians and Jews and regardless of what we think they will treat it as such.

Iranian Vice-President Mohammad Reza Rahim -  ''The government of the Islamic Republic of Iran condemns... this inappropriate and offensive action,' Mr Rahimi said.
'Certainly it will search for, track and pursue this guilty person who... has insulted 1.5billion Muslims worldwide.'

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei calling on the West to show it respects Islam by blocking the film. They must prove they were not 'accomplices' in a 'big crime', he said.


leader of the militant group Hezbollah Sheik Hassan Nasrallah - 'Those who should be held accountable, punished, prosecuted and boycotted are those directly responsible for this film and those who stand behind them and those who support and protect them, primarily the United States of America,' Mr Nasrallah said.
He called for protests on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, urging protesters to call on their leaders to express their anger too.
'We should not only express our anger at an American embassy here or there. We should tell our rulers in the Arab and Muslim world that it is "your responsibility in the first place" and since you officially represent the governments and states of the Muslim world you should impose on the United States, Europe and the whole world that our prophet, our Quran and our holy places and honor of our Prophet be respected,' he said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204619/Anti-Islamic-film-Iran-vows-track-filmmaker-The-Innocence-Islam.html#ixzz26l5d5lyO

[bsmooth]

We may go to serious war over this.  In their minds it's Islam versus Christians and Jews and regardless of what we think they will treat it as such.

Iranian Vice-President Mohammad Reza Rahim -  ''The government of the Islamic Republic of Iran condemns... this inappropriate and offensive action,' Mr Rahimi said.
'Certainly it will search for, track and pursue this guilty person who... has insulted 1.5billion Muslims worldwide.'

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei calling on the West to show it respects Islam by blocking the film. They must prove they were not 'accomplices' in a 'big crime', he said.


leader of the militant group Hezbollah Sheik Hassan Nasrallah - 'Those who should be held accountable, punished, prosecuted and boycotted are those directly responsible for this film and those who stand behind them and those who support and protect them, primarily the United States of America,' Mr Nasrallah said.
He called for protests on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, urging protesters to call on their leaders to express their anger too.
'We should not only express our anger at an American embassy here or there. We should tell our rulers in the Arab and Muslim world that it is "your responsibility in the first place" and since you officially represent the governments and states of the Muslim world you should impose on the United States, Europe and the whole world that our prophet, our Quran and our holy places and honor of our Prophet be respected,' he said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204619/Anti-Islamic-film-Iran-vows-track-filmmaker-The-Innocence-Islam.html#ixzz26l5d5lyO

Sounds more like saber rattling and trying to raise oil prices.

[CF DolFan]

Sounds more like saber rattling and trying to raise oil prices.

Hope so. The Israeli-Iran thing is getting very sensitive with Iran acquiring nuclear capabilities. Iran needs the other Arab countries to support them. What better way than to unite under the vale of Islam?