Are we are creating a major dependency class?

[Spider-Dan]

Your assessment of "high on the hog" is the problem. I could spend a week on my family alone but I have three healthy nieces that have 9 or 10 kids. I an't keep up. None of them are married nor are they working  but they all get by and none of them seem to want to get out.

As you just said, they have children.  Lots of them.

The assistance they receive is not because our society has determined that they deserve to be lazy.  It is because our society believes that children should be afforded as many opportunities to extract themselves from poverty as possible, and part of that is making sure that their parents are able to keep a roof over their head and food in their stomach.  I assure you that if/when your nieces no longer have children to support, their livelihood will not be nearly so comfortable.  (But then again, conservatives endorse all kinds of legislation to keep low-income women pregnant, so this might be an unlikely prospect.)

One of the favorite catchphrases of the right is, "Equality of opportunity, not equality of results."  If it is your opinion that children of the poor should be spending less time in school getting an education and more time working in the fields to contribute to this month's rent and groceries, that's fine; we can eliminate the extra welfare assistance for families with children, repeal child labor laws, and call it a day.  But again, we already tried that system 100 years ago, and we didn't like it.

[badger6]

Based on your response, its clear to me now that you didn't read my post, and only want to spew your agenda, so having logical conversations with you on this topic is unlikely.

I did read your post. Furthermore, I went back and reread your post. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you were saying. So pretty please with sugar on top, clarify to me what you were trying to convey in your post.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So we have an example of someone buying lobster with food stamps. 

Holy cow! Lets shut down the foodstamp program because this is proof positive EVERY SINGLE recipient of foodstamps abuse it. 

By this logic we should also end ALL military spending because the abuse of over charging the military is considerably worse than than foodstamp abuse.

Also every doctor should be banned from practicing medicine and every hospital should be closed because overbilling of medicine is also much more prevelant than food stamp abuse.


 

[badger6]

So we have an example of someone buying lobster with food stamps. 

Just an example of a rampant problem of what's going on with the entitlement crowd. At work on a weekly basis I hear certain people bragging about selling their benefits to people for cash. No telling how many times I have heard it.

Holy cow! Lets shut down the foodstamp program because this is proof positive EVERY SINGLE recipient of foodstamps abuse it. 

By this logic we should also end ALL military spending because the abuse of over charging the military is considerably worse than than foodstamp abuse.


Also every doctor should be banned from practicing medicine and every hospital should be closed because overbilling of medicine is also much more prevelant than food stamp abuse.

Ha, ha, ha, who said any of that ? So dramatic, don't shit your pants over it.......

[Buddhagirl]

Just an example of a rampant problem of what's going on with the entitlement crowd. At work on a weekly basis I hear certain people bragging about selling their benefits to people for cash. No telling how many times I have heard it.
Ha, ha, ha, who said any of that ? So dramatic, don't shit your pants over it.......

Where the fuck do you work that there are numerous people on benefits?

[badger6]

Where the fuck do you work that there are numerous people on benefits?

A major US corporation. Don't ask me how the hell they get benefits ? I guess it's easy to get them or whoever is responsible doesn't follow up on the requirements and qualifications for receiving them. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't get any. Now that I think about it, free groceries would be nice, but I don't really need them nor do I want them.

[CF DolFan]

As you just said, they have children.  Lots of them.

The assistance they receive is not because our society has determined that they deserve to be lazy.  It is because our society believes that children should be afforded as many opportunities to extract themselves from poverty as possible, and part of that is making sure that their parents are able to keep a roof over their head and food in their stomach.  I assure you that if/when your nieces no longer have children to support, their livelihood will not be nearly so comfortable.  (But then again, conservatives endorse all kinds of legislation to keep low-income women pregnant, so this might be an unlikely prospect.)

One of the favorite catchphrases of the right is, "Equality of opportunity, not equality of results."  If it is your opinion that children of the poor should be spending less time in school getting an education and more time working in the fields to contribute to this month's rent and groceries, that's fine; we can eliminate the extra welfare assistance for families with children, repeal child labor laws, and call it a day.  But again, we already tried that system 100 years ago, and we didn't like it.

That's all cute in black and white but the reality is there is no incentive to change. The aren't living high and mighty by most standards but they get very cheap housing and get to watch Jerry Springer and Oprah every day while "living it up" with whomever. Many of the the low income areas are full of people just like this. Yes I've basically lived in the projects. You have two types of people and very few in the middle. they either want to get out or are content to stay.

We have to find another way. To address this. Like someone said ... you get benefits then you spend X number of hours working for Goodwill, Salvation Army or picking up trash. There is no reson that healthy people are not contributing to society in some way. If you refuse to do that then lose your kids because not supporting your kids is a form of child neglect. 

as far as the drug testing the it was expensive numbers are skewed. It doesn't take into account all the people who dropped from the program because they knew they would fail.

 .... from the Sun Sentinel

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-09-13/news/fl-aclu-drug-testing-20120913_1_welfare-applicants-maria-kayanan-floridas-drug

At Scott's urging, the 2011 Legislature mandated drug testing of applicants as a requirement to receive federal welfare assistance, which is administered by the state Department of Children and Families. The law was in place for four months before a federal judge in Orlando stopped it pending a trial scheduled for next spring.

During that time, 108 applicants tested positive, while 3,936 showed no sign of drugs in their system – costing the state more than $100,000 in test-fee reimbursement to applicants. Another 2,306 people opted not to take the test, but the state did not say why

.

This means out of 6,350 people we ended up having to pay benefits for 3,936 people.  That almost a 40% decrease. How is that not saving money or encouraging people to step up? In fact I'd argue it was more important to get people to be accountable than to save money.

[Brian Fein]

A major US corporation. Don't ask me how the hell they get benefits ? I guess it's easy to get them or whoever is responsible doesn't follow up on the requirements and qualifications for receiving them. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't get any. Now that I think about it, free groceries would be nice, but I don't really need them nor do I want them.

Sounds like either someone's not doing their job, or there's a loophole in the system.  Instead of just eliminating the entire system, why not just fix the loophole?

[Fins4ever]

Badger, your receipt reminds me of an experience I had at a grocery store.

I was behind a woman in line and when she went to pay with food stamps the cashier politely told her she could not accept the stamps for dog food. The woman threw a fit, shouted obscenities and then said, "well, I will just go get him a T Bone!!!"

At that point she left all her groceries and headed to the meat department. We were all stunned and speechless.   

Whoever said that welfare should pay for basic food to survive and not lobster and prime rib.....I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!

[Landshark]

Badger, your receipt reminds me of an experience I had at a grocery store.

I was behind a woman in line and when she went to pay with food stamps the cashier politely told her she could not accept the stamps for dog food. The woman threw a fit, shouted obscenities and then said, "well, I will just go get him a T Bone!!!"

At that point she left all her groceries and headed to the meat department. We were all stunned and speechless.   

Whoever said that welfare should pay for basic food to survive and not lobster and prime rib.....I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!

This pretty much enhances badger's point.  If you're on food stamps, you shouldn't be having a pet.  You should also make those food stamps stretch as far as possible.  Buy ground beef and chicken drumsticks as opposed to lobster and prime rib.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

About a year ago I was in a local grocery store waiting in line behind a nicely dressed man using food stamps to pay for his stuff. Didn't pay attention to what he was buying, as I really didn't care. I only had like 3 items so I was through the line pretty quick as I was walking out to my truck I see this gentleman get into a brand new BMW and drive away. If you can afford a brand new BMW why the fuck are you on food stamps. I was furious but what the hell could I do about it.....nothing really.

[Dave Gray]

^ I don't know about the situation above, but here's how something like that happens:  My friends.

My friends have a nice, middle class lifestyle, a nice car, a house -- they had nice things.  So, when downsized and out of work, they still own those things, but all of a sudden, they don't have enough money to float their bills.  So, they cut back on new purchases, but have food stamps to float them until their situation is more stable.  ...and why not, they've paid into the program their whole lives.

So, if you saw my friends, dressed nicely, well-groomed, rolling up in a nice car and using food stamps, it'd probably piss you off.

But you don't know their situation, just as you don't know the situation of the guy with the BMW.

[bsfins]

That's all cute in black and white but the reality is there is no incentive to change. The aren't living high and mighty by most standards but they get very cheap housing and get to watch Jerry Springer and Oprah every day while "living it up" with whomever. Many of the the low income areas are full of people just like this. Yes I've basically lived in the projects. You have two types of people and very few in the middle. they either want to get out or are content to stay.

We have to find another way. To address this. Like someone said ... you get benefits then you spend X number of hours working for Goodwill, Salvation Army or picking up trash. There is no reson that healthy people are not contributing to society in some way. If you refuse to do that then lose your kids because not supporting your kids is a form of child neglect. 

I understand you sentiment (and somewhat agree),but think it's good ideology,not practical,no where near realistic..You can argue,and quote whatever you want...This all I'm going to say about it...

If you took all those people that are able bodied people on welfare...
Where are they going to work,these are the people the Salvation army helps,they don't have enough need with that many extra volunteers..They need more donations,money...Suddenly giving them tons of labor...

While some of those people's kids are old enough to go to school...So they can volunteer,work for their welfare from 7-3 Monday through Friday while School is in session.Then during the Summer,you have the same problem as the people with small children...Childcare...

All those people with small children, will need more childcare facilities,to "work for their welfare". Those people can't afford child care costs,So the government has to supply more...So they can "pay for their Welfare"

How are you going to get these people to "work" to So they can "work for their Welfare"? Here the Public transportation is a joke,we have a bus system.

Who's going to assign these jobs? Create another government agency? Who's going to go check that these people are "working for their Welfare"? What's the Penalty for not going to "work for your Welfare"? Jail? taking away their welfare? Now you add to a homeless problem...You even mentioned taking their kids away,That makes them wards of the state,and causes more problems...

I understand you hate people taking advantage of the system,complacency of being on welfare...You're creating a bigger horrible government mess,More spending to fix  a narrow problem...IMO...It's all great in theory and may work on a very small scale..In reality it's not going to work...

I already see everyone's retort..(Damn I'm arguing with myself again  ) But at least it's not giving up...It's trying....It's trying to change the system to make it better,get people off of welfare.....

It's people,just like you said about unions...

The problems with unions is that they are run by people. They start out as a great idea and then people start abusing them and screw everything up. If we could take the human agenda out of it then everything would be fine.

It's easy to come up with solutions,and getting mad about the problems when we're sitting here typing on our keyboards...Putting these ideas into action...Is a whole other thing,that's not so simple...

[Buddhagirl]

How would you know they're on food stamps? Arizona uses a card.

[Fins4ever]

About a year ago I was in a local grocery store waiting in line behind a nicely dressed man using food stamps to pay for his stuff. Didn't pay attention to what he was buying, as I really didn't care. I only had like 3 items so I was through the line pretty quick as I was walking out to my truck I see this gentleman get into a brand new BMW and drive away. If you can afford a brand new BMW why the fuck are you on food stamps. I was furious but what the hell could I do about it.....nothing really.

LOL, yup! I read not to long ago about a woman who was on food stamps even though she had won over 250K in a state lottery. Last I heard she claimed it was not income and was fighting losing her stamps. GOOD GRIEF!