Are we are creating a major dependency class?

[CF DolFan]

Forget politics for a moment. Forget Romney and Obama even exist let alone if they are doing the right or wrong things. Take an honest look at what is going on in America and decide if there may be some truth to this?

Democrats  ... can you honestly say that we are not encouraging people to "settle" for the minimum.

Republicans ... can you honestly say that we are "creating" a class of people that see no reason to work?

Why or why not?

[masterfins]

As a Democrat I think we have done too much for some people, to the point where they expect the government to take care of them.  It has become generational.  On the other hand we can't just cut everyone off as the Republicans would like to do.  Change will take time.  I just read an article in my local paper today that our county Dept of Social Services makes the first priority of everybody seeking assistance to put them on the road to finding meaningful employment.  Difficult to do in this economic environment, but this should be done everywhere.

[Brian Fein]

Outside of politics, I think there is a segment of people who are freeloaders (not nearly 47% and Mr. Romney claims - probably more like 2 or 3%).  With section 8 housing, welfare for their 12 kids, food stamps, medicare, unemployment...  Why should they work when they can sit at home and not worry?

I think people should have to earn these programs.  To get unemployment, you have to demonstrate that you are actively searching for a job.  People in other programs should have to work for it as well.  They should have to go pick up trash off the side of the highway or do menial tasks no one else wants to do to earn their free ride.  No worky, no check.

Of course, its better in theory - not sure if it would actually work.

[Fins4ever]

[badger6]

Outside of politics, I think there is a segment of people who are freeloaders (not nearly 47% and Mr. Romney claims - probably more like 2 or 3%).  With section 8 housing, welfare for their 12 kids, food stamps, medicare, unemployment...  Why should they work when they can sit at home and not worry?

I think people should have to earn these programs.  To get unemployment, you have to demonstrate that you are actively searching for a job.  People in other programs should have to work for it as well.  They should have to go pick up trash off the side of the highway or do menial tasks no one else wants to do to earn their free ride.  No worky, no check.

Of course, its better in theory - not sure if it would actually work.

2-3% freeloaders and fraud in the food stamp program ? Are you outta your damn mind ? I would venture to say that close to half (50%) of food stamp recipients are freeloaders and/or fraudulent. I personally know a guy that was getting food stamps in 2 states at once. I have seen on several occasions, people go into stores and buy a buggy load of luxury type food that I can't afford to buy and get into their Lincoln/Cadillac/Luxury SUV more times than I would like to remember.  See your idea is a pretty good one. Get them off their ass and make them work for their entitlements. I guarantee that the Dems would fight it tooth and nail and cry like a bunch of sissys. Furthermore, I don't see why some people don't think that people on entitlements shouldn't have monthly drug tests attached to it. How in the fuck could anyone argue with that makes no sense to me. But then again people arguing with voter ID makes no sense to me either.......

[Fau Teixeira]

Short answer: no.

[Landshark]

Furthermore, I don't see why some people don't think that people on entitlements shouldn't have monthly drug tests attached to it. How in the fuck could anyone argue with that makes no sense to me. But then again people arguing with voter ID makes no sense to me either.......

I totally agree.  To get my job, I had to take a drug test as well as several other types of tests/background checks.  They take money out of each paycheck to help fund the programs that give people welfare.  Why should I have to take a drug test to work to support your drug habits?

I find it kind of ironic that some of the most food stamp dependent states are the most obese states in the country. If someone needs food stamps they need basic food. Nothing special, nothing fancy, nothing to be picky about. Just food to live on until they do something for themselves. The food stamp program should have a strict and very limited list of foods allowed to be purchased. Just the basics, fruits, vegetables, some starches, and certain proteins. No sugary foods, no junk foods, no sweets at all, none of it. Hell for that matter no drinks of any type. Drink tap water. The human body needs food and water. Why should anything but the basic nutritional needs be provided for free. If it's not painful and unpleasant, where is the motivation to get off of the program. Kinda sad what this country is becoming.

I gotta agree here as well.  Maybe milk and all natural juices should be included because they are nutritional beverages.  But no soda, kool aid, sweet tea, bottled water, none of that. 

Anyone caught defrauding the system should be ineligible from the program for life. Plenty of this shit going on, see below.....

Holy Mary, mother of God!!!!!!! 

[Spider-Dan]

Let us dispense with the broad platitudes about "dependency classes" and talk specifics.

The overwhelming majority of people on government assistance fall into one of the following three categories:

1) elderly/retired
2) disabled
3) families with children

So, how should we go about reducing this unsightly dependency class?

Should the elderly, who have paid into SS/Medicare for their entire working lives, be taken off of this distasteful government dole and told that retirement is a luxury above their station?
Should the disabled be freed from the shackles of government dependence and left to sink or swim?
Perhaps children need to spend less time in their free, government-provided public schools and spend more time working to pay this month's rent?

See, the thing about the America you want is: we already had it 100 years ago.  We didn't have oppressive government programs like Social Security and Medicare.  We weren't held hostage by intrusive government regulations prohibiting industrial waste dumping in lakes and parks.  And the people who had to suffer through that version of America rejected it in favor of the government we have now.

Today, you have people who have lived their whole life in a world where every citizen over 65 has free healthcare, and where the middle class can actually retire instead of literally working to death.  And much like the dead-enders who reject vaccines, they want to undo the hard fought benefits earned by their predecessors and go back to their presumed ideal of survival of the fittest.

Sorry, I reject your premise.  If I wanted to be in a nation free of the insidious spectre of being-able-to-afford-retirement, or a complete-destruction-of-economic-mobility, I'd move to Somalia.

[Brian Fein]

2-3% freeloaders and fraud in the food stamp program ? Are you outta your damn mind ?

Based on your response, its clear to me now that you didn't read my post, and only want to spew your agenda, so having logical conversations with you on this topic is unlikely.

[Fins4ever]

I totally agree.  To get my job, I had to take a drug test as well as several other types of tests/background checks.  They take money out of each paycheck to help fund the programs that give people welfare.  Why should I have to take a drug test to work to support your drug habits?

I remember FL. pushing for drug tests for welfare recipients and I am pretty sure they found out that people that failed the test was incredibly low...something like 3%. Bottom line was that the drug testing program cost more to implement and maintain than it was worth. Anyone else remember that???

I understand your point and agree on needing an ID to vote. Like others have said. If you don't have an ID, you got bigger problems than not being able to vote. lol

[Phishfan]

I remember FL. pushing for drug tests for welfare recipients and I am pretty sure they found out that people that failed the test was incredibly low...something like 3%. Bottom line was that the drug testing program cost more to implement and maintain than it was worth. Anyone else remember that???

I do remember that. I'm glad you being conservative were the one pointing it out.

[Phishfan]

I have seen on several occasions, people go into stores and buy a buggy load of luxury type food that I can't afford to buy and get into their Lincoln/Cadillac/Luxury SUV more times than I would like to remember. 

I have seen it a lot myself but I did not make assumptions on how they were paying.

[Dave Gray]

I believe in a strong safety net.
I believe in a strong middle class. -- Both of these help America, as a whole.

With any safety net, there will be abuse.  I think you try and stop that where you can, but not at the cost of limiting those that really need it.  It's simply anecdotal data, but I have seen, firsthand, educated, hard-working friends have to rely on that safety net.  They were ashamed and never thought it would be them.  But when you have bills and a family and all of a sudden no job because of downsizing, they depend on that system to get back on their feet.

So, dependency class?  No.  Not at all.

When you look at the kinds of breaks we give to corporations, things like Welfare pale in comparison.  And the whole idea of the young buck waiting for his food stamps is a myth.  Some exist, I'm sure, but like Spider says, the majority of the people on those programs are things like elderly, the very poor, and the disabled.

[Spider-Dan]

Dave, I would just like to point out that even among the poor, the vast majority of assistance goes to poor families with children.  If you think there are single childless poor people living high on the hog through government handouts, you're mistaken.

[CF DolFan]

Dave, I would just like to point out that even among the poor, the vast majority of assistance goes to poor families with children.  If you think there are single childless poor people living high on the hog through government handouts, you're mistaken.

Your assessment of "high on the hog" is the problem. I could spend a week on my family alone but I have three healthy nieces that have 9 or 10 kids. I an't keep up. None of them are married nor are they working  but they all get by and none of them seem to want to get out.

On the other hand I have another niece and nephew, raised under the same conditions, who have chosen to get out of their earlier bad choices and are doing great. 

This is one of the reasons I have found myself moving over to Republicans. I am all for helping but am over enabling people including family. I've not only observed but have lived allowing people to hit rock bottom. giving handouts doesn't allow for this and as such,people continue doing as they always have.