Are we are creating a major dependency class?

[CF DolFan]

I have used government assistance and I'm waiting to get a frame for the outcome of it - I have student loans and I got Pell Grant for a year and have a Bachelor's Degree to show for it. Guess I'm part of the problem huh?

Many Republicans have used government assistance. They aren't against it.

[el diablo]

Except when they aren't using the programs that they complain about.

[dolphins4life]

It is absolutely correct that most Republicans don't know what its like to struggle.

The main belief of the Republican party is, "If you can't get a lavish job that pays all your benefits, you are a worthless bum and should be left out on the street"

[dolphins4life]

My parents are hard core Republicans, but unlike most people in the Republican party, they don't oppose supporting those in need.

They do object to people who abuse the system, which does happen.

The problem is most Republicans believe anybody who receives any form of government aid is a lazy bum.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Brian Fein]

I don't think anyone wouldn't object to people who abuse the system.  That's not a Republican ideal.  I think the definition of "abuse" has some variations, though.

It appears to me that Republicans are more of the mind that they had to work for what they have and so should everyone else.  If you are poor, then you deserve to be poor cause you didn't work hard enough. 

They don't appear to comprehend that sometimes people are poor for reasons out of their own control, and might need some help to get back on their feet. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This is the Republican strategy for their low-income base, in a nutshell:

I guess folks on foodstamps are either smarter or more honest than homeowners who got a interest deduction. 

[Spider-Dan]

CF, I think that poor white people have a hell of a lot more in common with poor minorities than they do with rich people (of any race or party).  That being said, the GOP's strategy for the last 40 years has been to turn poor white voters against other poor (usually minority) voters.

There was a documentary I saw a few months ago called "Two Americas," which chronicled the life of two Houston families; one of an (Hispanic) oil company executive, and another of a (white) construction foreman who had been laid off.  The GOP presidential primary debates were ongoing while this was being filmed, and they showed a clip of Newt Gingrich saying something about ending government assistance, to which the laid-off foreman enthusiastically agrees.

When the filmmaker mentions to him that a significant part of the documentary has been spent showing how vital unemployment benefits and food stamps have been to his family, this is his response:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiyFFXT0vr8

It's a total disconnect.

[Brian Fein]

SOMEONE would be?  Who?  What rich asshole is going to knock on his door and offer to buy his family groceries?  That guy is a complete moron.

[badger6]

So wait... you can't verify the income of someone who purposefully has little to no income?  Your statement is a contradiction in itself: if income cannot be verified, how can you possibly say what income a person has?

No contradiction at all. You can only verify what they let you verify. It could be nothing or it could be just under the limit before benefits are lost due to having too much income. You can't verify income from other sources that is purposefully not listed. Illegally made money, jobs that pay cash, money that comes from boyfriend/baby daddy/sugar daddy.......

Put simply: you don't have a clue WTF you are talking about.

Benefits are determined by household income, to prevent exactly the kind of abuse you are talking about.  The system is designed to catch and eliminate people like those you are claiming.  Government assistance fraud is something like 4%... I guess you must personally know all of them!

Who's living at the residence and how do you propose that the issuing agencies are enforcing the "household" income limit ? Do they do stake outs on all of the houses of people on assistance ? I'm fairly certain that they don't have the money, people, or resources for that.

The only people you see swiping cards are people whose incomes you cannot verify.  Q.E.D.

Correct, I cannot verify their income. When you see people buy a buggy load of bullshit that would break my budget and pay with an EBT card. Then notice that they have plenty of "bling" or $150 Nikes, or wearing more expensive clothes than I buy. Then get into an upscale automobile that I can't afford. Kind of easy to put 2 and 2 together.

You said, "Hell, go to a colorful area of town and see the expensive vehicles that cost more the house they are parked in front of."  So then, what does traveling to a poor area of town have to do with food stamps? 

The implication is that the poor area of town does have more people on assistance. Otherwise it wouldn't be a poor area. Do you dispute that ?

The obvious implication is that people in "colorful" areas are on government assistance and therefore should not be able to afford nice cars, but perhaps you meant something else by your statement.  So please explain.

What needs explaining ? If there are more people on government assistance in poor areas. These people shouldn't have expensive vehicles. What did you think that I meant by my statement ?

So let me see if I have this right:

- poor people should not buy large amounts of cheap food
- poor people should not buy small amounts of expensive food (e.g. steak, lobster)
- poor people should buy only food that is exactly expensive enough

And how is "expensive enough" determined?  Well, if you aren't hungry (but with nothing to eat) at least part of the time, then you're doing it wrong.  Did I get that all correct?

Well I'll give you some credit, you have it kind of correct. But you put your usual dramatic vocabulary twist on it to make someone else's idea seem much worse than it is. I would say no one on assistance should be eating better (steaks, lobster, prime rib) than most working Americans. I would also say that  no one on assistance should be eating junk and comfort food on the taxpayer dime. A "safety net" is the last thing to catch you before you smash to bits on the ground. So the people on assistance should be provided the bare minimum amount of healthy food to prevent them from starving, ie a safety net to prevent people from malnourishment and starvation. Living large on steak and lobster or getting fat on cheetos, captain crunch, and kool aid isn't a safety net, it's an excuse not to try and better your situation. These days people aren't asking for a hand, they demand a handout.

[badger6]

I am working three jobs right now and I STILL don't make enough to live on my own.

If I didn't have my parents, I'd have to turn to public assistance programs, such as Mass Health (a health insurance program for low income people in my home state).

Of course, if I did that, most Republicans would call me a lazy bum.

It's hard out there.  Most Republicans don't seem to think that.

It is very hard out there, I agree. A you have my sympathy about your situation. But you are working and trying to better yourself and I'm sure that you will succeed in time. But if you had to go on assistance, would you expect to eat steak and lobster or shovel down a bunch of shit food that might just make you feel content for the time being. Or would you be thankful eating a moderate amount of healthy type food since you had no other way to provide it for yourself ? As for me, I'm not rich by any means. But if I needed to go on assistance I would be thankful whatever I got and not have expectations of what someone else should "give" to me. But that's just me......

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

 But if you had to go on assistance, would you expect to eat steak and lobster

As if that reflects what most people on assitance eat. 

Let's step back for a second and ask "how did that reciept windup on the internet?"

Do people normally post their reciepts on the interent?  Did an investigative reporter go thru the trash looking for obscene reciepts?  Or did some one looking to score some right wing points pay someone on foodstamps $200 to go in and create that reciept so they could post it on their blog? 

If I was a betting man.  I would bet dollars to donuts --- number 3 was closest to the truth. 

[Brian Fein]

^^ here you go:

On the face of it, the case does seem too flagrant and over-the-top to be true — and now we know why. According to the Menominee County Sheriff's Department, local and state investigators have discovered that the reason the cardholder bought such large quantities of lobster, steak, and soda was not to "dine like a king," as some have characterized it, but to resell them for profit. And that is illegal.

The accused, one Louis Cuff, has been charged with welfare fraud and faces up to five years in prison if convicted.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/ss/Lobster-Steak-Food-Stamp-Receipt.htm

All the while its created 6 pages of one guy being up-in-arms over ALL people abusing welfare, when, in fact, it is an isolated instance of a criminal activity.

News story:
http://www.kmov.com/news/national/Michigan-man-buys-steak-and-lobster-with-food-stamps-resells-for-profit-123583709.html

[badger6]

One way to lower the amount of people on welfare and social assistance is free, easily accessible birth control and safe, affordable, convenient abortions.

I couldn't agree more. In addition to people not taking care of themselves and their children, overpopulation will be a problem eventually...

I think the use of "THOSE" people throughout this entire thread should really be interpreted to read: "THOSE BROWN" people. I get the feeling that some in this thread think people that look a certain way should not have certain things and are making huge assumptions.

Also proves my point. The Republican party is the party of old, angry, white men.

***RACE CARD ALERT***
***RACE CARD ALERT***

You, "thinking the use of "THOSE" people throughout this entire thread should really be interpreted to read: "THOSE BROWN" people." is a huge assumption on your part !!! Hypocrite much ?

[dolphins4life]

It is very hard out there, I agree. A you have my sympathy about your situation. But you are working and trying to better yourself and I'm sure that you will succeed in time. But if you had to go on assistance, would you expect to eat steak and lobster or shovel down a bunch of shit food that might just make you feel content for the time being. Or would you be thankful eating a moderate amount of healthy type food since you had no other way to provide it for yourself ? As for me, I'm not rich by any means. But if I needed to go on assistance I would be thankful whatever I got and not have expectations of what someone else should "give" to me. But that's just me......

I would expect to get some decent foods, but no I would not expect luxurious items from food stamps, so you are right about that.  What I object to is the Republicans assuming anybody who can't get a good job is a lazy bum.

[badger6]

As if that reflects what most people on assitance eat. 

Let's step back for a second and ask "how did that reciept windup on the internet?"

Do people normally post their reciepts on the interent?  Did an investigative reporter go thru the trash looking for obscene reciepts?  Or did some one looking to score some right wing points pay someone on foodstamps $200 to go in and create that reciept so they could post it on their blog? 

If I was a betting man.  I would bet dollars to donuts --- number 3 was closest to the truth. 

Please, if you are going to quote what I say, at least use the whole sentence instead of picking and choosing what to reply to. Thank you

But if you had to go on assistance, would you expect to eat steak and lobster or shovel down a bunch of shit food that might just make you feel content for the time being.