3rd & freaking 18

[jimmythefinger]

Through all this talk about career days for Hartline, Wake, Bess and Tannehill everybody seems to be forgetting about the Defense. Miami's tough against the run, but against the pass they are Father freaking Christmas. All the have to do is hold Arizona on 3rd and 18, they win the game.

You wanna talk about positions to upgrade, I think Defensive Coordinator is high on the list.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't think you need to replace the DC on a team that is leading the league in run defense.

Ireland traded away his best CB in preseason.  Coyle is making chicken salad.

[Thundergod]

...and the two fourth down conversions.

[MikeO]

This defense has taken to the 4-3 like a fish to water. And all the reports are the players just LOVE Coyle! He keeps the meetings light. He was running sprints with them after practice (during camp). Not surprising they have adjusted so well to the 4-3 so well since last year they were in a 4-3 over 50% of the time anyway. Coyle NOT dropping Wake into coverage at all (unlike Nolan) helps. Jones playing much better at safety has helped as well.

This team is weak at CB. If they kept Vontae it would have been weak anyway so that trade didn't really hurt anything. It is an area that needs to be addressed going forward.

Coyle is not the problem.

[Brian Fein]

Blaming Coyle is a cop out.  Dumb.

I will dispute until the end of this season that Vontae was the best corner on this team.  Absolutely false.  Vontae was the most overrated corner on this team.

Corner is the team's biggest weakness and needs to be addressed.  But we have to hope Marshall improves until the draft, most likely.  If Sean Smith gets hurt, we're completely F'ed.

[Fins4ever]

My 2 cents..

1. Coyle is not the problem and an organization cannot continue to change out key personnel (like coaches) every year (in this case 4 games) and expect stability or success.

2. The pass defense sucked before Coyle got here. If anything, at least they have a few picks.

3. No one on this forum was more disappointed in VD than me, but he was not the best CB. He continues to get schooled and Philbin has made it clear that attitude plays a big role.

 

[Phishfan]

Ireland traded away his best CB in preseason. 

Debatable point spoken as fact. I don't think Davis had done anything this offseason to be considered the best on the team currently. I'm not sure but I'm hearing that he isn't doing so well in his new home either.

[Fins4ever]

Debatable point spoken as fact. I don't think Davis had done anything this offseason to be considered the best on the team currently. I'm not sure but I'm hearing that he isn't doing so well in his new home either.

We may never know the entire story, but I read that VD was having a terrible camp and had an issue with going to the bathroom too often for JP's taste. I will admit, I thought it was pretty "ballsy" move considering how weak and thin the CB position was / is.

[Brian Fein]

I'd rather have the 2nd round pick than watch Vontae getting beat.  We have lots of other guys that can get beat in coverage.  At least now we have a 2nd round pick as well.

[Fins4ever]

I'd rather have the 2nd round pick than watch Vontae getting beat.  We have lots of other guys that can get beat in coverage.  At least now we have a 2nd round pick as well.

So far...

1 1st
2 2nds
2 3rds
1 4th
1 5th
1 6th
1 7th

9 picks. Did I miss anything. 

[Spider-Dan]

Debatable point spoken as fact. I don't think Davis had done anything this offseason to be considered the best on the team currently.

"Tom Brady is the best quarterback in the AFC East" is also a debatable point spoken as fact, as (like any evaluation of which player is "better") it is purely opinion.

Do you have any sort of basis for claiming that Sean Smith (or anyone else on the roster) was a better CB than Davis at the point Davis was traded?  Meaningless preseason games are meaningless; remember, right after they were drafted, Smith outplayed Davis in training camp and preseason, only to wind up getting benched due to his play in games that counted.

I'm not sure but I'm hearing that he isn't doing so well in his new home either.

I suppose you can also use this logic to claim that Miami traded their second-best receiver to the Bears?  Or, continuing that logic, that Miami traded two second-round picks for DEN's second-best receiver?

[Spider-Dan]

I'd rather have the 2nd round pick than watch Vontae getting beat.  We have lots of other guys that can get beat in coverage.  At least now we have a 2nd round pick as well.

It was also a lot easier to sit around in 2006 and say, "I'm glad we got that 2nd rounder for Surtain" than it was before he was traded.  Same goes for when Chris Chambers was traded.

Of course, sometimes you wind up with the Wes Welker end of that deal, and then everyone bitches incessantly about how stupid the Dolphins were for letting him go.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

"Tom Brady is the best quarterback in the AFC East" is also a debatable point spoken as fact, as (like any evaluation of which player is "better") it is purely opinion.

Seriously man?  There are some player evaluations that are opinion and others that are not. 

Who is better Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers? - debatable.

Who is better Peyton Manning or Mark Sanchez? - not debatable. 

[fyo]

But we have to hope Marshall improves until the draft, most likely.

Marshall is in his 7th year. Is it honestly realistic to expect improvement from him?

If Sean Smith gets hurt, we're completely F'ed.

This. He might just be the hardest player on the whole roster to replace in the short term.

[jimmythefinger]

Blaming Coyle is a cop out.  Dumb.

Don't know how you can call me dumb when the guy's Defense lets the opposition convert a 3rd & 18 and 2 4th Downs when you're up by 7 with less than 2 minutes in the game.

Stats are great, but with the game on the line this D can't hold anybody. Mark Sanchez and Santonio (give me the ball or I want to go) Holmes. Kevin Kolb and Andre Roberts. Prior to playing the Fins these guys were universally regarded amont the worst in the NFL. Don't think Sanchez and Kolb are even owned in most Fantasy Leagues.

I'm not saying we should dump him now, but after watching his D choke in 2 losses in a row I don't understand how you can say his job's not on the table.

One big reason Miami's leading League in Run D is they are Father Christimas vs. the Pass. And I love hearing about how Coyle keeps the meetings "light" and the players love him. Guess the D's really responded to that. Must be why Fins are 1-3.

Obviously Vontae Davis was a disappointment, but at least he had some ability. You want to trade him, I don't dispute we got decent value in return, but now you're 30th in the NFL vs The Pass and it just cost you 2 games in a row.

And I'm dumb?

And I reiterate -- Jeff Ireland with Draft Picks is like Stevie Wonder at the Free Throw Line.