Don't twist my words on Ryan Tannehill

[EKnight]

If you hate Omar or are drunk on the RT juice, maybe skip this one. I think it makes some fair and vaild points, especially given how many "Such and such is so high on RT" threads as have been started.



"I don't hate Ryan Tannehill. In fact, I like the Dolphins quarterback a lot, and advocated for the Miami to select him back in January when most said he wasn't good enough, or proven enough.

I wanted him slow cooked, but he's in the microwave now and I'm willing to accept the finished product.

Some claim I'm too harsh on the rookie quarterback, but truth is I'm critical of ALL quarterbacks (except Joe Flacco), and I don't understand why Dolphins fans want to lower the bar of expectations.

Has Ryan Tannehill shown promise? Absolutely!

Has he played good as an NFL starting quarterbacks? Not even close!

His turnovers have led to three losses this season, and yes I'm counting the New York Jets game because without the pick-six there wouldn't have been an overtime game in my opinion.

His accuracy (55.9) is below the NFL norm, and that's supposed to be his strength.

And Tannehill's 66.4 quarterback rating has him ranked 31st in the NFL. A rating in the 80's is the bar for above average QB play.

If Chad Henne produced Tannehill's numbers he'd have been run out of town, no matter how he looked in the game.

Don't change your standards, and water down your expectations because of his pedigree and draft status.

Cincinnati quarterback Andy Dalton, who was selected in the second round, produced a solid rookie season and led his team to the playoffs.

In his second season as the Bengals starter he's completing 67.5 percent of his passes, throwing for 1111 yards and eight touchdowns (four interceptions). Dalton has a 103.0 quarterback rating after four games.

That's GOOD quarterback play!

Right now, as promising as Tannehill appears, he's below average by NFL standards.

I look up his numbers in every category each week and share them with you.

He's got poise, he's got a good arm. He's fairly mobile. He's hard to rattle so far. He possesses plenty of promise and upside. But he hasn't been GOOD yet.

Good leads to wins. Good protects the football. Good puts an opponent away to finish off a game.

Wait for GOOD before anointing him your savior.

Just to avoid all the confusion THIS LINK sends you to my discussion with WQAM host Dan Sileo, where I explain my EXACT feelings on Tannehill, and why I'm not willing to crown him - unlike Sun-Sentinel columnist Dave Hyde - after one solid game that didn't produce a victory.

We had this same issue when everyone wanted to anoint Henne as the savior after every good game - Jets, Oakland - he played.

My point. Look for progress. But slow down, and wait for a larger sample size and a couple of kills."




This summarizes many of my issues with RT. Yes, a lot of people were high on him heading into the draft. On the other hand, SI and Mel Kiper had him as the most overrated player on the boards. I also think the comparisons to Henne from a fan's POV are pretty fair.

Some things that people noted about Henne within weeks of him accounting for 475 yards in one game:

He doesn't lead TD drives! That's the QB's job. SCORE POINTS. We are in the redzone a ton and we just kick field goals. SORRY thats on the QB!

henne just doen't make any plays when it matters. 3rd downs, redzone, 2 minute drill,... nada

its one thing to be an average qb, totally different thing to be an average qb that makes absolutely no plays to help your team win.

Why are the standards different for RT? The line of thought that, "he's a rookie, so he's not going to be perfect," makes no sense to me. If he's not ready to win games, sit him until he is. Moore may not have been any better than 1-3, but he likely wouldn't have been worse.

"Good leads to wins. Good protects the football. Good puts an opponent away to finish off a game." -EK

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-10-03/sports/sfl-dont-twist-my-words-on-ryan-tannehill-20121003_1_ryan-tannehill-henne-nfl-norm

[CF DolFan]

I prefer the words of Armando as to why he is a good QB in his rookie season ....

Because the Cardinals brought the house in blitzes and Tannehill did a fine job connecting anyway.

Because the Dolphins had very little in the way of a running game and Tannehill simply put the offense on his back -- and after a 431-yard passing day, the offense didn't seem to heavy for him.

And, because the guy is still just a rookie and time promises he will continue to get better. And hopefully the Dolphins will be able to give him more weapons -- like a tight end to threaten a defense down the seam -- to make Tannehill even more lethal.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2012/10/every-throw-ryan-tannehill-made-against-arizona.html#storylink=cpy

[Pappy13]

His turnovers have led to three losses this season, and yes I'm counting the New York Jets game because without the pick-six there wouldn't have been an overtime game in my opinion.

Since when was it Ryan Tannehill against the Texans, Jets and Cardinals? I could have sworn that it was the Miami Dolphins versus those teams. I saw a lot of guys out there playing against those teams and I could have sworn that I have seen a few negative plays by guys without the number 17 on their back. It's nice that you have all 3 losses on RT's shoulders, but you're wrong. Plain and simple you are wrong. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. The fact of the matter is that RT is not 1-3, the Miami Dolphins are 1-3 and there's plenty of blame to be handed out. Certainly the QB has to shoulder a little more of the blame then some other guys for a loss but even that only goes so far because RT hasn't stepped on the field for a single defensive or special teams snap and those parts of the game are easily as much responsible for the outcome of a game as the offense is. So if you want to say that Miami is 1-3 with RT at QB, that's fine, but to say that RT is solely responsible for the 3 losses is laughable.

When your words more acurately reflect reality then I won't disagree with them.

[EKnight]

Pappy, you do realize I didn't write the article, yes? -EK

[Pappy13]

Pappy, you do realize I didn't write the article, yes? -EK

No, I was not aware.  I didn't see the link at the bottom till just now. Just assume I'm talking to Omar.

[EKnight]

That's why there's an "Omar disclaimer" at the top and a link at the bottom. -EK

[Pappy13]

That's why there's an "Omar disclaimer" at the top and a link at the bottom. -EK

Sorry, i missed the Omar reference at the top and link at the bottom. My comments still stand. Omar is wrong. Not wrong about not annointing RT the franchise, I agree whole heartedly with that stance, but he's wrong that the 3 losses can be attributed directly to Tannehill's turnovers. That's bunk.

[Thundergod]

Since when was it Ryan Tannehill against the Texans, Jets and Cardinals? I could have sworn that it was the Miami Dolphins versus those teams.

^^^
That's my mentality when people talk about certain players and how many championships "they've" won (any sport).

That being said, I kinda agree with Omar on two things: RT17's turnovers killed us (mainly the Cardinals game) because they were late in the game. And that I'm going to wait on anointing him our savior until after about a year maybe a year and a half. I like the guy, and he looks like he can develop into something good, but he aint no worldbeater just yet.

I don't agree on the slow cooked crap. I've always been for playing guys right from the start. Iron out all the wrinkles now, instead of LATER, in hopes for a decent 3rd year.

[Brian Fein]

Perception is reality.

Henne had already been deemed as "trash" by the fans and the media, so no matter what he did, his performance was just that - trash.

Tannehill is in the "I hope he is the next Marino" status right now, so people will praise him until they see what is happenning.  Heaven forbid Tannehill has a few games where pick-6's lose the game for the Dolphins.  Then see how fast the fans turn on him.

Personally, its nice to see the fan community rally around a guy for once, instead of publicly focusing on all the things he sucks at, and how terrible he is.  It has been like that since Fielder.  Name one QB of the past 16 starters that got support from the fans.  I'll wait...

From Fielder, to Griese, Pennington, Green, Frerotte, Henne, Thigpen...  All of them got lambasted by the fans.  Matt Moore got a little praise for how he finished the season last year, but that ended the minute the Dolphins announced the #8 pick in April.

None of it means anything until the national media has something to say.  And we're starting to see that a bit after the last game.   We'll have to see if it continues and, just maybe, Tannehill will be the real deal.

Sadly, just like my opinion of Tebow, there's nothing RT can do to make EK like him.  He's going to be a Tannehill hater forever.

[Pappy13]

That being said, I kinda agree with Omar on two things: RT17's turnovers killed us (mainly the Cardinals game) because they were late in the game.

And I agree that the 2 late turnovers in that game killed us, but to simply call them "RT's" turnovers is not fair. These were not turnovers of the variety like Naanee's where he tried to run with the ball and it fell out of his hands. No, both of those turnovers occurred when RT was being hit, once from behind and was stripped of the ball and other time while he's trying to throw downfield and he couldn't follow through on his pass.  Both of them occurred on plays where the person who hit RT was blitzing and was not picked up properly by the blockers, so to ignore these facts is not being honest about the turnovers. Certainly RT has to take some of the blame on both of them, but the blockers have to take some of the blame as well and give a little credit to the defense for causing the turnover's too. It's not like the Cardinals just suck on D, they are a very fast defense that causes problems and they did it again on Sunday when the game was on the line.

So I have no problem with saying don't annoint RT anything just yet, but at the same time blaming him solely for those 2 turnovers and therefore the loss is ignoring so many factors that it borders on ridiculous. If the defense make's a stop on 4th and 10 from inside the 20, does that make Tannehill's 80 yard bomb to Hartline then the sole reason they WON the game? I think not, but if it does then doesn't that therefore mean that whomever was supposed to cover Roberts on that 4th down play the SOLE reason for the loss? It's just absurd to think in those terms when the game is played over the course of 3 hours, not in the space of 6 seconds or so it takes for 1 play.

[EKnight]

I don't hate RT, I just don't think he's a very good NFL QB. There's a big difference- I would never wish for misfortune to befall him like many people here keep hoping happens to Tebow. I would also take exception to the fans "lambasting" Pennington. I seem to recall quite a few fans absolutely loving the guy when he got MVP votes in '08 and the team went 11-5. In fact, I can't seem to recall anyone disliking him that year.  -EK

[Brian Fein]

I don't hate RT, I just don't think he's a very good NFL QB. There's a big difference- I would never wish for misfortune to befall him like many people here keep hoping happens to Tebow. I would also take exception to the fans "lambasting" Pennington. I seem to recall quite a few fans absolutely loving the guy when he got MVP votes in '08 and the team went 11-5. In fact, I can't seem to recall anyone disliking him that year.  -EK

THAT YEAR, No.

The following year, when everyone was demolishing him because he's made of glass and can't throw the ball more than 4 yards....  ABSOLUTELY. 

Results drive opinion.  People will love him when they're winning.  Before 2008, people said "Pennington, really?  His arm is about to fall off."   During 2008, it changed to "yay Pennington!"  After 2008, it was more like "that guy should retire cause he's too fragile."

[EKnight]

Well if results drive opinion, why is there- nearly every day anymore- a thread about how some former QB or writer or talking head is so high on RT, yet when I point out that he's been a turnover machine and stares down his recievers and gives up a lead (all things he did in college and is not getting better at) I'm suddenly completely wrong and out of my mind? Why is everyone HERE so high on him? Results drive opinion. 1-3 are his current results. That's my point. He may not always stink, but stop sugar-coating it- he's not very good right now. -EK

[Brian Fein]

Because its more than record for him.  you're evaluating a young player on his ability and growth and looking for signs of hope and promise.  Yes, he's 1-3, but could easily be 3-1 if a kicker makes 2 of 3 FG's or if a corner could stop someone on 3rd and long. 

Point is, he's shown promise and hope, and record aside, there's something to be said for that.  Mitigate your expectations, he's not Tom Brady.  He's a kid, who's learning.  All you want to see is hope, whether you recognize it or not.

Out of curiosity, aside from not wanting to draft him because Mel Kiper said he's overrated, what's your beef with Tannehill?  Please cite concrete examples.

[MikeO]

EK, You are comparing Chad Henne YEAR 4 to Tannehll GAME 4!   Really? REALLY! Really?! This is where ya lose people with any credibility and nobody takes these rants seriously anymore.

Henne was no good and we have years of stats to back that up, actual hard evidence! There is a track record of Henne failing (and is continuing to prove he is no good by not being able to beat out Blaine Gabbert).  You proclaimed Tannehill a bust after 2 quarters, check that, you said he was a BUST before he even played a game and are proud of it. Which is downright foolish on every level. You can't be a BUST until you play and prove you are a BUST! Before anyone steps onto an NFL field for the very first time they could be a superstar, a good player, a marginal/bad player, or a bust. You don't know until they PROVE IT!  Proclaiming a player a BUST before they even play 1 real snap in 1 real game beyond foolish and downright laughable.  

Essentially by sticking to this stance you are alone on that "Tannehill is a Bust" you are saying you don't allow a rookie QB to make any mistakes. You expect a rookie QB to come in day 1 and be the same as a guy with 10 years experience and their mistakes should be judged equally. Which is silly. Peyton Manning made a ton of rookie mistakes his first year. How did you know he wasn't a BUST before he ever stepped on the field? Year 1 Peyton threw 28 INT's. Would you have called him a BUST after his 1st season? Because he sucked year 1! I mean he really sucked! Re-watch the games and the tape, he was a turnover machine.  Aikman's rookie year was 9 TD's to 18 INT's. Hell, even Luck threw 3 INT's week 1, that make him a bust? By you're unreasonable standards all of these guys would have been busts by halftime of their Week 1 games! It makes no sense.

And don't say you don't "HATE TANNEHILL"....you clearly do. Or else you would have budged off this outlandish stance you are grasping too, and at the very least.....at the very least say maybe I was wrong let's see how it plays out over the coming weeks. But you won't even do that? You stick to the..."he is a bust and I don't think he is any good." And you are claiming you would rather have Matt Moore at QB? BASED ON WHAT? He is a career back-up who can't win a starting job on bad teams (ie Carolina and Miami).  You hate Tanny so much that you started another thread just to bring up again how much you dislike him and his play.  It is OK to hate Tannehill, you are entitled to, just man up and admit it!

By the way, nobody is anointing Tannehill or claiming he is the second coming of elite NFL QB's. NOBODY! You can't find one post of anyone saying such here or anyone in the media saying such. But jesus christ let the guy play more than a few games or at the very least a season before he is labeled a BUST or you proclaim that he sucks and is no good and never will be any good!