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Author Topic: Prominent neurosurgeon convinced there's a heaven after seven day out of body  (Read 4177 times)
CF DolFan
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« on: October 09, 2012, 08:07:02 am »

I get that this won't change any skeptic's mind in here but is rather interesting how a man of science can push everything aside he knows aside. Here is a man that "knows" every scientific theory about near death experiences and yet, doesn't see it fitting his experience. 

Quote

The prominent neurosurgeon who is now convinced there's a heaven after his seven day out-of-body experience


- Harvard educated Eben Alexander did not believe patients tales of out-of body experiences
- But now describes a place filled with butterflies that he experienced while in a coma
- Describes 'a sound, huge and booming like a glorious chant, came down from above,'
- Says he was accompanied by a young woman

A skeptical scientist who had spent his career studying the mechanics of the brain and dismissing patient tales of journeys to heavenly realms has revealed his extraordinary conversion after his own encounter with the afterlife during a near death experience.
Dr Eben Alexander spent 15 years as an academic neurosurgeon at Harvard but he was struck with a nearly fatal bout of bacterial meningitis in 2008 and had no brain activity when he lay comatose for seven days at a Virginia hospital.
Though he was unconscious and unresponsive during that period, he is now describing a 'hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey' to a place beyond, filled with butterflies and resounding music that has shaken his scientific viewpoint on human consciousness.
He says he entered a place filled with clouds and the sound of chanting, and was met by a beautiful blue-eyed woman.
 
Dr Alexander describes his paradigm shift from focusing solely on the scientific make up of the brain to considering the spiritual realm of the mind, in a deeply reflective essay in Newsweek in advance of the release of his book Proof of Heaven. 'As a neurosurgeon, I did not believe in the phenomenon of near-death experiences,' he writes in his article, explaining how he had previously relied on 'good scientific explanations for the heavenly out-of-body journeys described by those who narrowly escaped death.'
 
Though he considered himself a nominal Christian he said he lacked the faith to believe in eternal life.
 
When his patients would tell tales of going to heaven during near death experiences, he relied on 'current medical understanding of the brain and mind' and disregarded them as wishful thinking.

But after he became the patient, he says he 'experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.'
The 58-year-old has an impressive pedigree. His ancestors were well regarded politicians and prominent fixtures in society in Tennessee. His father was Chief of Neurosurgery at Wake Forest University from 1948 to 1978.

The younger Alexander graduated from Phillips Exeter Academy and received his bachelor's degree from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1975. He earned his medical degree from Duke in 1980.

He spent 15 years teaching neurology at Harvard Medical School and the University of Virginia - lecturing on and researching brain mapping, the treatment of brain tumors and trying to understand cognition.

In 2008, the father-of-two was in 'good health and good shape,' preparing to embark on a hike with his son of a volcano in South America, he said in a July interview about the ordeal with Skeptiko.
 
Little did he know that he would soon become a patient at the very hospital where he taught.

Brush with death: Dr Eben Alexander spent seven days in a coma in 2008 and had little brain activity but he has vivid memories of his visit into the great unknown (stock photo)
The doctor's life was nearly cut short on November 10, 2008, when he awoke at 4:30am to get ready to go to work at the Lynchburg General Hospital in Virginia, where he worked as a neurosurgeon.

All of a sudden, he developed a severe pain in his back and within 15 minutes he was paralyzed in anguish and could barely even move.
His wife, Holley, rushed in to assist him and began to rub his back to relieve the tension but his condition worsened.

Before he began convulsing in a seizure, his last words to his wife were, 'Don't call 911,' and he lost consciousness and has no memory of what happened for an entire week.
Fortunately for him, his wife disregarded his advice and he was rushed to an area hospital and was diagnosed with bacterial meningitis.

'My entire cortex - the part of the brain that controls thought and emotion and that in essence makes us human - had shut down,' he writes in his essay. 'Doctors determined that I had somehow contracted a very rare bacterial meningitis that mostly attacks newborns. E. coli bacteria had penetrated my cerebrospinal fluid and were eating my brain,' he added.

He was placed on a ventilator at the intensive care unit and for six days he was treated with triple antibiotics to fight the bacteria but his brain had little functionality and he was unresponsive, leaving doctors to believe he would not recover.
As his family prepared for the worst, on the seventh day he suddenly opened his eyes.
His breathing tube was removed and he miraculously told doctors, 'Thank you.'

No activity: The neurosurgeon said during the seven days he was in a coma in 2008, his cerebral cortex, that controls thought and emotion, shut down. He suffered from amnesia and could not remember his life at all prior to his illness and remained in a haze for the first few days after he came out of the coma.

As he recovered though, he began to recall vivid memories of a magical mental experience during his time in the coma. 'There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind - my conscious, inner self - was alive and well. While the neurons of my cortex were stunned to complete inactivity by the bacteria that had attacked them, my brain-free consciousness journeyed to another, larger dimension of the universe: a dimension I’d never dreamed existed and which the old, pre-coma me would have been more than happy to explain was a simple impossibility,' he writes.  He says he entered a 'place of clouds - big, puffy and pink-white,' filled with butterflies and angel-like creatures that were 'simply different from anything I have known on this planet. They were more advanced. Higher forms.'

I believe, help thou my unbelief: Dr Alexander says he was a nominal Christian before his brush with death but has experienced a spiritual reawakening. In this heavenly realm, he says he heard 'a sound, huge and booming like a glorious chant, came down from above,' providing him with a sense of joy and awe. A beautiful young woman accompanied him during his stay, 'she was young, and I remember what she looked like in complete detail. She had high cheekbones and deep-blue eyes. Golden brown tresses framed her lovely face.'  Alexander admits his description might sound like something straight out of Hollywood, but to skeptics he says he has a clear sense that is was indeed real and 'not some fantasy, passing and insubstantial.'

After his remarkable experience in 2008, Alexander says the impact has been both on the professional and the spiritual. Now the scientist has committed his energy to 'investigating the true nature of consciousness and making the fact that we are more, much more, than our physical brains as clear as I can, both to my fellow scientists and to people at large.'
But the self-described Christian-in-name-only, now says his experience with heaven has deepened his understanding of God and strengthened his faith .

'At the very heart of my journey [is this], that we are loved and accepted unconditionally by a God even more grand and unfathomably glorious than the one I’d learned,' he concludes.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214836/It-place-clouds-big-puffy-pink-white-The-prominent-neurosurgeon-convinced-theres-heaven-body-experience.html#ixzz28nnbZ9Cx
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Dolphster
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 08:42:45 am »

I had a really high fever once and thought that Don Shula was next to my bed talking to me.  Once the fever broke, I realized it was a box of tissues sitting on the nightstand.    Grin
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Buddhagirl
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 09:42:33 am »

This story reminds me of that time I did a bunch of acid and talked to Buddha.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 10:57:31 am »

CF, you seem to not grasp the basic concept of a skeptic's thought-process.  It doesn't matter what one person (or even a group of people) thinks.  It only matters what data says.  ...what evidence says.

On top of that, even if you did go by individual opinions (which means nothing), believers turn atheists in huge numbers every day.  ...far more so than a scientist once in a while that finds faith.  But either way, it doesn't matter.  If I woke up tomorrow and the whole world suddenly believed, it wouldn't make it true.

My uncle is a physicist who is a Ned-Flanders-esque level of religious.  So, I get that it happens.  But it doesn't (nor should it) sway the mind of a skeptic, since "appeal to authority" is one of the fallacies we try to avoid.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 11:24:25 am »

Person undergoes traumatic brain event and nearly dies.
During said traumatic brain event, person has an incredible experience unlike anything in their normal existence.
This experience leads them to believe in the afterlife.

This article is the equivalent of, "Wow, I had a really intense dream when I had pneumonia, therefore aliens live in the moon!"  And it doesn't particularly matter whose name is attached to this story.
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Fins4ever
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 11:57:49 am »

Thanks CF, I thought it was a great article but appear to be in the minority.

For me, the subject of afterlife comes down to science vs. faith. Of course this is a personal choice, but for me I would rather have faith and be wrong than believe in science and be wrong. Science will NEVER be able to explain everything, IMO. 
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Dolphster
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 12:04:47 pm »

Pascal's Wager.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 12:51:51 pm »

Of course, the problem with Pascal's Wager ("if I believe in a god and he doesn't exist, I lose nothing, but if I don't believe in him and he does exist, I lose everything") is twofold:

1) If there is no god, every moment of time you spent worshipping him is a wasted portion of your finite existence; an hour a week for 70 years adds up.

2) Even if one of the (hundreds of) religions is true, there is no guarantee that it will be your religion.  If it comes down to being judged by a supreme being, I'd rather be standing in front of him as the atheist who didn't promote any religion than the guy who was actively trying to convert people to a false religion.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 01:00:09 pm »

I would rather have faith and be wrong than believe in science and be wrong.


Why? This guy did not beleive in afterlife and supposedly made it there. The only proof this article gives to me is that you don't need faith.
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 03:38:09 pm »

CF, you seem to not grasp the basic concept of a skeptic's thought-process.  It doesn't matter what one person (or even a group of people) thinks.  It only matters what data says.  ...what evidence says.
Oh I get it. That's why I said "I get that this won't change any skeptic's mind in here but..." It's a story of irony that I thought was pretty interesting. Did not mean to offend.
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bsmooth
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 03:43:39 pm »

Oh I get it. That's why I said "I get that this won't change any skeptic's mind in here but..." It's a story of irony that I thought was pretty interesting. Did not mean to offend.

He hardly sounds offended at all.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 05:44:17 pm »

Of course, the problem with Pascal's Wager ("if I believe in a god and he doesn't exist, I lose nothing, but if I don't believe in him and he does exist, I lose everything") is twofold:

1) If there is no god, every moment of time you spent worshipping him is a wasted portion of your finite existence; an hour a week for 70 years adds up.

2) Even if one of the (hundreds of) religions is true, there is no guarantee that it will be your religion.  If it comes down to being judged by a supreme being, I'd rather be standing in front of him as the atheist who didn't promote any religion than the guy who was actively trying to convert people to a false religion.

However, if you take the approach as follows it works fine:

God, if he exists, cares more about my behavior towards others than he does about prayer for heaven admission.

Thus if I live a good life, don't hurt others, give to charity etc, I got a decent shot at admission.  However, if I steal, murder, etc, I will go to hell. 

Works okay even for an agnostic or athesist. 
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2012, 06:05:21 pm »

I think its a nifty story. Its not a story about the existance of an afterlife. Its a story about psychological effects of a singular coma experience.
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badger6
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 06:20:04 pm »

IMO God and religion is just mans attempt to deal with the fact that when you die. YOU DIE, just like Mr. Whiskers your pet cat. It's game over and you're worm food. Now, that in no way means that I'm saying that God doesn't exist, because I'm not smart enough to figure that shit out. Without conclusive proof to the positive and all of the contradictions in the bible, I lean toward him being a fairy tail an doing what I think is right, living life, and letting it work itself out. Supposedly if God exists, he already knows if you are going to heaven or hell, and since God is supposedly perfect you can't change what he already knows. Therefore, there is no point trying to go to heaven. Just live your time out and when and if the bills due, settle up like a man.
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Fins4ever
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 05:59:09 pm »


Why? This guy did not beleive in afterlife and supposedly made it there. The only proof this article gives to me is that you don't need faith.

Hmm. We don't know how it would have turned out if he actually died. I don't recall ever reading someone that says they smelled hellfire and brimstone. lol

I don't think the article proved that faith is not needed. In fact, if you read and believe in the bible, then you know that you do indeed need faith.
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