Should religious organizations be exempt from labor laws? (from welfare thread)

[Spider-Dan]

From the other thread:

The heart of the free exercise clause is that the government does not get entangled with the internal governance of churches and other religious establishments. This is probably the most clearly defined precedent in free exercise clause jurisprudence. Ms. Perich was a "called" minister-teacher. That they fired her is a clear matter of internal church governance, as is every decision concerning who they consider a minister, who they consider fit for ministry, etc.

And yet, the EEOC went right after this church for the violation of labor laws, as if they applied to, again, what is clearly a matter of internal church governance.

So then, it is your position that the scenario which I laid out (principal of religious school fires teacher for refusing to date him) would and should be completely exempt from any sexual harassment laws?   And that it would be brazen disregard of the First Amendment for any court to rule otherwise?

The "free exercise" clause is not a "get out of jail free" card just because you file as a religious organization.  While many conservatives seem to be under the impression that the First Amendment means that any religious organization can do whatever the hell they want to any person they employ and such conduct is outside the rule of law, you will note that the SCOTUS specifically stated that Hosana-Tabor was NOT to be taken as precedent that aggrieved employees could not file suit against their employers (just not in that case).

Another point... normally, the Conservatives get harangued on this board for trying to merge church and state in law. This is a clear case of an ultra-liberal EEOC, functioning as part of an ultra-liberal Administration, attempting to violate the separation of church and state, no?

I'd say it's a case of the government enforcing labor laws on an employer.

The same sense of outrage that you used to describe the blatant disrespect that the Obama administration showed for the First Amendment in Hosana-Tabor was frequently on display this spring when the ACA forced Catholic hospitals to pay for plans that provided birth control to their employees.  So how far does this "free exercise" rabbit hole go down?  Can a Catholic hospital hire janitors as exempt employees and work them 70 hours a week with no overtime?  Can a Scientology... umm, preacher?... fire his secretary because she won't give him a blowjob?

[bsmooth]

Not if they hire from the general public at large. If their employees only come from the congregation, then you could consider allowing the church to be exempt, especially if the people hired understood this. But if you are hiring both secular and non secular employees, then they should fall under the same guidelines that all other businesses have to comply with.

[Fau Teixeira]

Employers don't have the right to force their religious views on their employees. end of story.

if you work for a catholic hospital, you didn't abdicate your rights.  They can't decide for you that you cannot have birth control. Or that you are somehow exempted from coverage that everyone else receives. Churches are specifically given exemptions. A hospital is not a church. a School is not a church. A church is a church.

[Sunstroke]

Until God can be properly deposed, I'm for stripping all exemptions, protections and benefits from religious organizations...treat them like any other business.

[Landshark]

Employers don't have the right to force their religious views on their employees. end of story.

if you work for a catholic hospital, you didn't abdicate your rights.  They can't decide for you that you cannot have birth control. Or that you are somehow exempted from coverage that everyone else receives. Churches are specifically given exemptions. A hospital is not a church. a School is not a church. A church is a church.

While they can't decide for you if you can't have birth control, or a morning after pill, they can choose not to carry those items and make you get it somewhere else.  They can also choose not to perform abortions. 

[mboss]

Until God can be properly deposed, I'm for stripping all exemptions, protections and benefits from religious organizations...treat them like any other business.

And tax the Churches on their real estate holdings. That alone would wipe out the budget deficit we have!

[CF DolFan]

Employers don't have the right to force their religious views on their employees. end of story.

if you work for a catholic hospital, you didn't abdicate your rights.  They can't decide for you that you cannot have birth control. Or that you are somehow exempted from coverage that everyone else receives. Churches are specifically given exemptions. A hospital is not a church. a School is not a church. A church is a church.

I don't know about hospitals but schools are considered an extension of the church as long as it is run by the church. If I rented part of the church to run a Christian school out of it then it is not covered. I would have to assume the hospitals are the same way but I don't know that.

[SCFinfan]

Hey guys. I'll get on this as soon as I can. Busy days @ home and @ work. I'll respond when I have a moment, probably tomorrow night.

[Sunstroke]

And tax the Churches on their real estate holdings. That alone would wipe out the budget deficit we have!

Amen...

[masterfins]

And tax the Churches on their real estate holdings. That alone would wipe out the budget deficit we have!

Well it would probably wipe out a lot of churches in the process.  Not to mention the churches then would not have the funds for many of the charitable activities they carry on to help people, hence the government would have to start paying for them.