2013 Hall of Fame Ballot

[EDGECRUSHER]

Headlined by:

Barry Bonds
Sammy Sosa
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Craig Biggio

No evidence linking Piazza to PED use or cheating, so he should get in easily. Biggio is a case that can be debated on nothing but merit. I don't think he should get in despite his 3,000 hits. He had a very good career, but his hits and runs scored just came from playing forever as opposed to dominating the game in a 10-15 year span.

Sosa has absolutely no chance because before his steroid use, he wasn't anything special at all like Clemens and Bonds were. I don't think Bonds or Clemens get in either because of their long history with steroids. "Allegedly".

McGwire has been on the ballot for 6 years and he is only at 19.5 percent, so he really has no chance. I'd be shocked if any of those 3 made it into the Hall this year, let alone in the future.

[Dave Gray]

I think that you have to suck it up and put guys like Bonds and Clemens in the hall.  Steroids were part of the game.  And especially in cases where these guys weren't specficially caught, you have to let them in.

[Fins4ever]

I think that you have to suck it up and put guys like Bonds and Clemens in the hall.  Steroids were part of the game.  And especially in cases where these guys weren't specficially caught, you have to let them in.

As much as I hate to, I agree. You can't wait until after the fact and then punish them. They should have been reprimanded when they were doing the PED, not years later. Just like Lance Armstrong.....uh, never mind. lol

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

As much as I hate to, I agree. You can't wait until after the fact and then punish them. They should have been reprimanded when they were doing the PED, not years later.

Disagree. 

1.  You punish people when you catch them.  Avoiding detection should not grant you impunity.

2. This is different than Armstrong.  LA was stripped of his medals.  If the issue was 'should Bonds give back his Gold Glove Awards' than we woud have valid comparison.  Here we are talking about if we should give them a NEW award, in light of the taints.

Not sure if they belong in or not.  Having them in might send the wrong message to the kids who are starting T-ball this spring about the right and wrong way to play the game.  But their dishonor must be measure with their honors before deciding. 

[Spider-Dan]

I can't speak for Clemens, but Bonds deserves HOF based strictly on his pre-PED body of work.

Then again, if you can keep Pete Rose out...

[Landshark]

If Palmeiro and McGwire aren't getting in, let's see how the writers like Bonds and Clemens.

[EKnight]

PEDS or not, Bonds was in a league by himself ahead of any of those other guys. He came within 8 hits of batting .400 one year and played against pitchers who were likely juicing as well. Not sure he had a gross advantage over anyone else in MLB. The guy was a freak, and while I doubt he gets in, I think he should. -EK

[Fins4ever]

I can't speak for Clemens, but Bonds deserves HOF based strictly on his pre-PED body of work.

Then again, if you can keep Pete Rose out...

I have said that for years. It is OK to get caught with cocaine and come back, but to bet on your team.....

Hoodie, the league had several years to catch them and didn't. How have they caught them now? They literally made a federal case with Clemons and proved nothing.

PS. Government has no business being involved in sports. Just another form of intrusion.   

[Landshark]

I have said that for years. It is OK to get caught with cocaine and come back, but to bet on your team.....

The thing is, he never bet on his team as a player.  He did it as a manager.  That doesn't have any effect on what he did as a player. 

And for the record, I don't condone his actions either.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

I would be shocked if they were put in on their first year with all of the controversy. Personally I don't think the cheaters, especially if caught, should be allowed in.

[masterfins]

^^^ Doctoring the baseball is cheating also, but there are pitchers in the HOF that were very good at it.  The problem is that once you let one player in that used PED's, then it opens the floodgates to admit all.  Palmeiri, Clemens, and Bonds all would have been HOF's before they started using PED's.  I don't see any of them getting in.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I agree that Bonds was a great player before his head became The Great Pumpkin and should be in the HOF if we were just judging that, but I am not so sure about Clemens.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml

Look for yourself. The popular theory is that Clemens began taking steroids when he went to Toronto because of how utterly ridiculous those two seasons were in comparison to his entire career and his current age. At the time, he had 192 wins entering his Age 34 season. Fastball pitches decline faster than finesse pitchers because they rely on blowing the ball by the hitter as opposed to painting the corners. So, you figure 6 more seasons and he probably ends up with 260 wins. Great total, but not the magic 300 number.

He still would've hit 3,000 K's barring an injury, but would've topped out around 3,600 or so assuming an average decline. I think he still would've gotten in, but he wouldn't be in the conversation of GOAT, or even his own era.

The thing with the steroid numbers is not so much that someone hit 73 Homeruns (although that's just ridiculous), it's that they hit 73 Homeruns when they turned 37. You don't get better when you get older, you get worse. Much worse. So, you have to take the ridiculous years of when guys produced like MVP's past the age of 37 and essentially cut them down by 50-75%. Look at those numbers and see if they are HoF numbers.

[Sunstroke]

I'd let Pete Rose in long before the Roid Rangers...

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

PS. Government has no business being involved in sports. Just another form of intrusion.   

I will agree with that.

Hoodie, the league had several years to catch them and didn't. How have they caught them now? They literally made a federal case with Clemons and proved nothing.

It isn't up to the voters to prove that these guys committed a crime, it is up to the players to prove themselves worthy of being honored as the best of the best of all time.  Their drug use is a negative on that score and should be taken into consideration. 

Note: I am not saying they definitely don't belong.  Just that it should be part of the consideration.  To draw an analogy:  When Belichick is up for consideration for the football hall of fame, camaragate should and most likely will be part of the discussion.  I doubt it will keep him out of Canton, but I do expect it will be weighted as a factor when by the voters when voting.

With the PEDs I am unsure if it should be an automatic bar or not.  And am unsure how I would vote if I had a ballot.  But if I did have a ballot it would very much be an issue I would have to consider seriously. 

[Fins4ever]

The thing is, he never bet on his team as a player.  He did it as a manager.  That doesn't have any effect on what he did as a player. 

And for the record, I don't condone his actions either.

What he did was wrong and lieing about it made it worse....but a lifetime ban???  Seems harsh to me. Almost every other athlete gets a second chance.

Who was the pitcher that was suspended something like 7 times for cocaine? Steve something.