The Dolphins should take a WR in the 1st round of the draft.

[EKnight]

^^ It doesn't matter.  They were picking at 8 and that's the guy they wanted.  So they took him.  They weren't picking 19.  There was no choice.

Pappy's point was that it was a reach at #8. I was agreeing. For some reason Spider is fixed on the ESPN pre-draft rating, when no one else had RT that high. My post had nothing to do with  whether there was a "choice." As Pappy noted and most media agreed, it was a reach. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft

National Football Post: Tannehill is a franchise QB. He can make all the throws, is a "plus" athlete and is only starting to scratch the surface of his potential. He needs to do a better job deciphering information. With time he could mature into one of the league's top signal-callers. NFL ceiling: Top-five quarterback. NFL floor: Inconsistent starter.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Czar-NFL-Draft-grades-per-team-042812

Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill was the obvious selection, considering his connection to offensive coordinator Mike Sherman, his head coach in college last year. And, yes, owner Stephen Ross wanted to draft a quarterback, considering the franchise hasn't had one since Danny Marino. But unlike Luck and RG3, Tannehill isn't ready to start in the NFL, because just two years ago he was a college receiver. He's had just 19 starts under center for the Aggies.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/archive/1273654

A closer look at the Dolphins' picks: Round 1/8 - Ryan Tannehill, QB, 6-4, 221, Texas A&M...The Dolphins felt his athleticism, footwork and accuracy made him the ideal fit for the west coast offense. BEST PICK: Quarterback Ryan Tannehill: According to coach Joe Philbin it only took the team's first-round pick three hours to grasp the Dolphins playbook. There's a good reason for that considering Tannehill used it the past two seasons playing for Mike Sherman as the Aggies starting quarterback. Sherman is now the Dolphins offensive coordinator.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html#

Tannehill not listed as a steal or a reach (notably, Russell Wilson listed as a reach).

---

But let's be clear here... reaching for a QB is something to be expected, due to the payoff: a franchise QB is the difference between championship contender and perpetual doormat.  Reaching for a WR is a luxury that you do when your team is so solid that you're one piece away from a title.  When Atlanta reached for Julio Jones, that was a savvy personnel move; when the Dolphins reached for the Ginn Family, it was stupid and pointless.

[masterfins]

Pappy's point was that it was a reach at #8. I was agreeing. For some reason Spider is fixed on the ESPN pre-draft rating, when no one else had RT that high. My post had nothing to do with  whether there was a "choice." As Pappy noted and most media agreed, it was a reach. -EK

It's really pretty simple, Miami desperately needed a QB, Tannehill was the best available QB at #8, so they took him.  Now you can throw out all sorts of BS about trading down and taking him later, etc, etc., but you have to have another team that wants to trade up to your spot to get a certain player, which wasn't going to happen.  The only other option was to trade away your whole draft (and maybe future years) to MAYBE get the #2 spot, which would have been crazy.

[Pappy13]

Pappy's point was that it was a reach at #8. I was agreeing. For some reason Spider is fixed on the ESPN pre-draft rating, when no one else had RT that high. My post had nothing to do with  whether there was a "choice." As Pappy noted and most media agreed, it was a reach. -EK

Again I want to point out that I didn't think it was a reach at the time, but it was tossed around as being a reach by a lot of people, that is what I was referring to. I WANTED Miami to take Tannehill at #8 and in no way did I think it was a reach to take him there. I even said it would have been a mistake to pass on him.

[Brian Fein]

A "reach" is when you take a guy grossly ahead of his projected slot, typically a guy you could have got with a later-round pick.  Like taking a 2nd round guy in the first round. 

Taking a guy "10 slots early" is not a "reach" if he's the guy you want.  You take your guy at your pick - that's how drafts work.  You don't take the guy that Mel Kiper says is the 8th best talent on the board when you have a glaring need and your prospect is there.  What would you have preferred, trade down?  Well, that takes another team to accomplish.  Or instead they should have taken some other player and floundered with a 2nd or 3rd round QB again? 

I'm not sure how that "reach" argument holds any water...

[EKnight]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft

National Football Post: Tannehill is a franchise QB. He can make all the throws, is a "plus" athlete and is only starting to scratch the surface of his potential. He needs to do a better job deciphering information. With time he could mature into one of the league's top signal-callers. NFL ceiling: Top-five quarterback. NFL floor: Inconsistent starter.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Czar-NFL-Draft-grades-per-team-042812

Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill was the obvious selection, considering his connection to offensive coordinator Mike Sherman, his head coach in college last year. And, yes, owner Stephen Ross wanted to draft a quarterback, considering the franchise hasn't had one since Danny Marino. But unlike Luck and RG3, Tannehill isn't ready to start in the NFL, because just two years ago he was a college receiver. He's had just 19 starts under center for the Aggies.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/archive/1273654

A closer look at the Dolphins' picks: Round 1/8 - Ryan Tannehill, QB, 6-4, 221, Texas A&M...The Dolphins felt his athleticism, footwork and accuracy made him the ideal fit for the west coast offense. BEST PICK: Quarterback Ryan Tannehill: According to coach Joe Philbin it only took the team's first-round pick three hours to grasp the Dolphins playbook. There's a good reason for that considering Tannehill used it the past two seasons playing for Mike Sherman as the Aggies starting quarterback. Sherman is now the Dolphins offensive coordinator.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html#

Tannehill not listed as a steal or a reach (notably, Russell Wilson listed as a reach).

---

But let's be clear here... reaching for a QB is something to be expected, due to the payoff: a franchise QB is the difference between championship contender and perpetual doormat.  Reaching for a WR is a luxury that you do when your team is so solid that you're one piece away from a title.  When Atlanta reached for Julio Jones, that was a savvy personnel move; when the Dolphins reached for the Ginn Family, it was stupid and pointless.

^^This has nothing to do with my post or what you're earlier argument was. You have repeatedly used the ESPN rating to show RT's "grade" coming out of college as if it's the end-all-be-all for grades and the only rating system out there. I simply stated there were places that had him graded much lower, and when you asked me to provide them I did (CBS sports removes their grades after the draft, although I remember him being in the 80s for them as well). If you want to argue about what some people were saying about him before he was drafted, I'm happy to pull up what several scouts said (many said he had no business going in the first round at all) or what media people (ie, Golic, Brian Billick, etc) had to say, but that's a different thread- let's not derail this one further. My point is that he wasn't rated as highly by everyone as you make it seem with the ESPN ratings, and I showed that. 87 is not 97. Don't change the argument now by throwing in random quotes from people who have nothing to do with his pre-draft grade. Miami REACHED for RT by taking him #8, especially with the number of other holes they had to fill, and up to this point, he has not looked like a franchise QB.

Brian- multiple NFL scouts said he WAS a second rounder, had no business going in the first round, let alone top ten. That's a reach. -EK

[Dolphin-UK]

Brian- multiple NFL scouts said he WAS a second rounder, had no business going in the first round, let alone top ten. That's a reach. -EK

Actually I would argue that a reach is when you take a player way ahead of your OWN board not anyone elses, all that matters is your own scouting and your own evaluation based on your team needs.

Who cares what Mel Kiper thinks and I care even less for what RIVAL NFL scouts think about a player. In the run up to the draft everyone makes comments designed to shift the value of their prospects and confuse other teams as to their intentions at a given pick. After the draft its easy to criticise any pick as a reach whether you agree with it or not because if you're right people will remember and if you're wrong people will forget.

[Brian Fein]

Miami REACHED for RT by taking him #8, especially with the number of other holes they had to fill, and up to this point, he has not looked like a franchise QB.

I understand that you don't like Tannehill.  It is well documented on this and other threads.  However you need to be more objective and stop letting your hatred cloud reality.

He is a rookie QB, and has played better than expected.  He has potential to develop into a franchise QB.  Regardless of where he was drafted and where they scouts had him, with so many other teams looking for QB's, he would not have lasted until the Dolphins' 2nd round pick.  He likely would have been taken by Cleveland at 22, if not by someone else between 8  and 42.  If the Dolphins had no interest in Weeden, then it is not a reach.  You take your guy when you have the chance.  Period.

[EKnight]

I guess that's where we disagree. There were reports that Miami was ready to trade up to #3 to take him if they needed to. This is exactly what Billick, Golic, and several other guys meant in saying he was a reach. Golic:

“Just because you feel your organization has taken a hit on quarterbacks is no reason to be taking a guy, even at your spot at 8, let alone trading up to 3.”

“By saying, ‘We better take a quarterback because people are starting to talk around here that we can’t get a quarterback, so let’s just grab the next quarterback available,’ that’s a bad road to go down.”

There were a LOT of guys who feel Miami did just that. It has nothing to do with my feelings on RT. I didn't tell Golic to say that or Billick to say RT's draft rise and imminent failure reminded him of JaMarcus Russell. I didn't tell the Arizona scouts that he was worse than Nick Foles or the Chicago scouts that he was a second or third founder. They came up with that all on their own, long before the season started. Enough people felt like Miami "reached" in drafting RT for me to feel comfortable agreeing with them. -EK

[Brian Fein]

I agreed with you, AT THE TIME.  I also thought that taking Tannehill just cause he was the next QB on the list was a maistake, and that he would be a bust because he was rated so far below the others (RG3 and Luck).  Any talk of trading up just shows you how set they were on Tannehill being their guy.  The fact that they didn't take the bait is a tribute to the decision-makers.

But after 14 games, I've come around on Tannehill.  I feel like that's never going to happen with you, no matter what.

[Dolphin-UK]

The issue I have with your reaching argument is that it is based on OTHER PEOPLE'S opinions, which is to say that because a majority of people, albeit rival teams say it's a reach, they must be correct and therefore you agree.

[Pappy13]

Now that we have beaten the Tannehill issue to death, can we get back on track? At the very least can we talk about next year's draft rather then the last one?

[Spider-Dan]

I guess that's where we disagree. There were reports that Miami was ready to trade up to #3 to take him if they needed to. This is exactly what Billick, Golic, and several other guys meant in saying he was a reach. Golic:

“Just because you feel your organization has taken a hit on quarterbacks is no reason to be taking a guy, even at your spot at 8, let alone trading up to 3.”

“By saying, ‘We better take a quarterback because people are starting to talk around here that we can’t get a quarterback, so let’s just grab the next quarterback available,’ that’s a bad road to go down.”

Regardless of whether or not there was "consensus" that Tannehill was a reach at #8, isn't this exactly what Pappy13 is saying Miami should do?  Draft a receiver in the first round, no matter what, regardless of how much of a reach it is?

[EKnight]

Spider, I believe it is, and I think that's a poor approach for any position. There are no quality #1 WRs in the draft, so I agree they should go the route of FA. -EK

[Pappy13]

There are no quality #1 WRs in the draft, so I agree they should go the route of FA. -EK

There are 3 or 4 WR's being considered late in the 1st round. Cordarrelle Patterson - Tennessee, Terrance Williams - Baylor, Keenan Allen - California, Tavon Austin - West Virginia. Miami is probably going to pick somewhere in the middle of the round, find someone you like (one of these guys or someone else) and take him, you'll have the pick of the litter.

Here's a couple of draft analysts that that think Miami should take a WR and they have him being taken at #11 which I think they will draft much lower then that, probably around 15.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock