A stadium upgrade deal?

[MikeO]

Or maybe it is that someone who represents the taxpayers of Tampa doesn't believe that the taxpayers of Tampa should fund a stadium in Miami. 

you haven't read up on this situation and don't know the details. You have it 100% wrong. Nobody in Tampa would have to pay anything with this deal

[Pappy13]

While this is definately a blow to Miami's SB chances, I don't think the Dolphins are going anywhere. Miami has been on a downswing for a long time, but my gut is telling me they are currently on an upswing. All Miami needs is one good playoff run to turn things around and I'm hopeful that's not too far off.

[Phishfan]

Yeah, it is strange that a county tax was decided at the state level.

That is because there was more to it than just that. There was also a portion that dealt with the Dolphins (and other sports franchises) gaining sales tax rebates.

[MikeO]

While this is definately a blow to Miami's SB chances, I don't think the Dolphins are going anywhere. Miami has been on a downswing for a long time, but my gut is telling me they are currently on an upswing. All Miami needs is one good playoff run to turn things around and I'm hopeful that's not too far off.

this has nothing to do with winning games or losing games. This is about revenue streams coming into the stadium and the franchise. Miami could go 14-2 and win the super bowl and it wouldn't change any of this stuff that is going on. Selling out 8 home games is a drop in the bucket of this teams financial issues.

[Pappy13]

this has nothing to do with winning games or losing games. This is about revenue streams coming into the stadium and the franchise.

You don't think winning games will effect revenue?

Miami could go 14-2 and win the super bowl and it wouldn't change any of this stuff that is going on. Selling out 8 home games is a drop in the bucket of this teams financial issues.

It's not just selling out the games, it's the merchandising boost it would create, plus concessions etc. On top of that they would probably be able to raise ticket prices, concession prices etc. Would probably help make getting a vote a little easier as well. I think you underestimate what a 14-2 season and a SB win would do for the team.

Now it wouldn't fix everything, I'm not suggesting it would, but I think it would keep the Dolphins in Miami.

[Brian Fein]

Winning games would absolutely affect revenue.  Although, they claim that all those home games with all those orange seats are "sell outs."  I think they might need to let a game or 2 get blacked out locally in order to get people to come out.  I'd reconsider buying tickets if I thought that was the only way I could watch the game.  But, since I can watch on TV, I have no interest in buying tickets right now.

Besides, we all know that winning breeds loyalty.  Fans in south Florida only show up when you win.  Is it funny how, last season, you couldn't get a ticket to the Florida Panthers because they were in the playoffs, but this season they couldn't GIVE tickets away fast enough? 

This is the same fan base.

The same fan base that would pack Marlins Park to the rafters if the Marlins went to the postseason.  The same fan base that came dressed as empty seats at Heat games 4 years ago.

Its not a coincidence.  10 years ago, the stadium was full.  Now, its not.  The difference is that 10 years ago, the Dolphins had a winning tradition, were always in the hunt, and were competitive.  Now, they lose every game and no one has fun.  So why spend the money?

Every head in the stadium is more than a ticket price.  Its a hot dog and a beer.  Its 1/2 to 1/4 of parking.  Its an $11 Coke or a $25 t-shirt.  Revenue isn't just about selling tickets.

[Dave Gray]

Winning games would absolutely affect revenue. 

Not enough.  Even if you sold out every game, that's only 8 per year.  (Some of those would sell out anyway, or be bought up by TV rights.)  You gotta realize that the Marlins leaving cuts out a ton of revenue from renting out that stadium.  You have to supplement with other events to make up: soccer, concerts, bowl games, etc.  It's hard to do that without the upgrades.

[dolfan13]

threats of moving the dolphins are laughable...

the nfl isn't about moving a franchise in what is around the #8 media market (dade, broward, palm beach), to a market that is slightly bigger. that is like moving pieces of the total nfl television revenue around.

the bigger prize is in substantially GROWING the nfl revenue pie. that happens when you move a small market team to a large market, i.e. jacksonville, buffalo, minnesota to la.

[SCFinfan]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9246386/miami-dolphins-pay-stadium-fixes-ceo-mike-dee

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but if it hasn't, I found it quite eye-opening.

I think it's interesting that Mr. Walker doesn't think SunLife Stadium is all that bad.

[Spider-Dan]

threats of moving the dolphins are laughable...

the nfl isn't about moving a franchise in what is around the #8 media market (dade, broward, palm beach), to a market that is slightly bigger. that is like moving pieces of the total nfl television revenue around.

The NFL "allowed" two teams to leave LA for STL and 50% of the Bay Area, so I'm not sure your position has a historical basis.

Keep in mind that in today's sports world, a championship-winning Seattle team (the only major championship-winning team in that city, mind you) can be moved to Oklahoma City fairly easily.

[Phishfan]

While not being a lie, you really sugar coated Seattle's history before their move. Calling Seattle a championship team is about like calling the Dolphins one as well.

Also you are comparing different sports. While they are both in major sports leagues,  think it is an unfair comparison. Three (I am going to exclude the Nets move) NBA teams (Sonics/Thunder, Grizzles, & Hornets) have moved in recent history while it has been since 1997 since the Oilers were the last team to relocate in the NFL. I think the cultures are too different to use it as a good comparison.

Also by saying "allow" are you including the fact the NFL barred the Oakland move to LA only to have it overturned in the courts?

[Pappy13]

Not enough.  Even if you sold out every game, that's only 8 per year.  (Some of those would sell out anyway, or be bought up by TV rights.)  You gotta realize that the Marlins leaving cuts out a ton of revenue from renting out that stadium.  You have to supplement with other events to make up: soccer, concerts, bowl games, etc.  It's hard to do that without the upgrades.

According to the following Miami was 29th in attendance with only 76% of stadium capacity at home games (by far the lowest number in the NFL). You don't think a 25% increase (or more) in ticket sales, concessions, merchendising etc for 8 games would make a difference? I respectfully disagree. That plus whatever Miami would get if they hosted a playoff game or 2 for example? Like I said, it wouldn't fix all the issues, but it sure would help.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2012

[Spider-Dan]

While not being a lie, you really sugar coated Seattle's history before their move. Calling Seattle a championship team is about like calling the Dolphins one as well.

That was the comparison I was specifically going for.

Also you are comparing different sports. While they are both in major sports leagues,  think it is an unfair comparison. Three (I am going to exclude the Nets move) NBA teams (Sonics/Thunder, Grizzles, & Hornets) have moved in recent history while it has been since 1997 since the Oilers were the last team to relocate in the NFL.

From 1995-1997, four NFL teams moved.  Meanwhile, at the same time, you would have had to go back to 1978 to find 4 examples of NBA teams moving.  It's just timing.

Also by saying "allow" are you including the fact the NFL barred the Oakland move to LA only to have it overturned in the courts?

More specifically, I'm saying that the NFL can't stop owners from moving, regardless of what they might think about market coverage.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Not enough.  Even if you sold out every game, that's only 8 per year.  (Some of those would sell out anyway, or be bought up by TV rights.)  You gotta realize that the Marlins leaving cuts out a ton of revenue from renting out that stadium.  You have to supplement with other events to make up: soccer, concerts, bowl games, etc.  It's hard to do that without the upgrades.

Actually if you win a sufficient number of games you raise the number of games you play at your stadium from 8 to 10.  That increases revenue.

If you don't win and don't sell out the owner can only raise ticket prices slightly if at all from year to year.  If you win constantly and not only sell out but have a waiting list that is greater than stadium capacity the owner can raise ticket prices w/o risk of not selling out and raising revenue.

Winning improves revenue.  

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

you haven't read up on this situation and don't know the details. You have it 100% wrong. Nobody in Tampa would have to pay anything with this deal

Yeah, I have not been following it very closely.  I stick to my original statement that I oppose tax funded stadiums -- consistently, regardless of sport or team.