Lebron is that good.

[EKnight]

How does that, in any way, invalidate anything I said? You initiated the hypothetical "could" and I responded. There's no chance in hell that LBJ could keep up with Kobe or Jordan if the only goal was to just score. Aside from the recent streak, we all know that James only plays three quarters anyway.    -EK

[Sunstroke]

There's no chance in hell that LBJ could keep up with Kobe or Jordan if the only goal was to just score.

So, you've convinced yourself that your opinion passes for empirical proof. I applaud your conviction

Aside from the recent streak, we all know that James only plays three quarters anyway.    -EK

And we all know that Kobe's best scoring moves are reserved for unwilling teenage hotel workers...   -FU

[EKnight]

Little bit more than my opinion. Kobe has 111 40 point games, 25 50 point games, 5 60 point games and an 80 point game. Jordan had 173 40 point games, 31 50 point games, and 5 60 point games. Lebron has 49? 50? 40 point games (not positive on that) and 9 50 point games. Is that better "empirical proof?"

Again- not taking anything away from LeBron- he's put together not just a "few" great games, but a month's worth of them this year. It's just MY OPINION that he's not the scorer (and never will be) that Kobe or Jordan is/was, and in terms of overall game, I'd still take Bird ahead of him at small forward. Why he's a small forward at his size is something I'll never understand, but that's just me. -EK

[Dave Gray]

I think what's so impressive about this Lebron run is that is a really quiet 30 points per night.  He's scoring 30 in spite of not shooting a lot, and doing so many other things really well.

[EKnight]

He IS having a great total season (not just these few games) in terms of efficiency, no doubt. I'm not sure how "quiet" it is, though, as I seem to hear about it daily on sports radio. -EK

[Dave Gray]

I mean quiet in that it's not like he's taking all the shots.  It's that he's playing really reserved basketball and taking smart shots.  He's not just taking over games.  It's really impressive.

[EKnight]

I can't disagree with that at all. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

I agree, but the point is not what he could do, but what is is doing. In terms of flat out scoring, I believe MJ and Kobe could have surpassed 40 ppg with ease if they were given the same situation.

You're missing the point.

The point is not simply that LeBron is scoring more than anyone else ever has; that is easily refuted.  It's the efficiency with which he is playing.  Yeah, Jordan or Kobe or (AI, or Shaq, or the Admiral) could outdo LBJ's scoring, but I don't think Jordan or Kobe have ever had the kind of non-scoring impact that LBJ is having on the game right now.  The only player I can remember with a similar ability to dominate the game without taking a shot every trip down the floor was Magic.

To put this in perspective, since LeBron entered the league in 2003, he has scored 20,410 points on 14,979 shots.  In the same time frame, Kobe has scored 20,275 points on 15,486 shots.  So not only has Kobe scored less, he has taken over 500 more shots to do it.

Do you want to compare assists?
LBJ- 5,097
Kobe- 3,658

Rebounds?
LBJ- 5,351
Kobe- 3,971

Steals?
LBJ- 1,277
Kobe- 1,082

So since LBJ has entered the league, he has outscored Kobe straight up, he has been FAR more efficient in scoring, and he's demolished him in the other aspects of the game.  What is the argument, again?

[el diablo]

That points & rings matter. Until points and rings don't matter.

Case in point. There's the argument that a superstar makes everyone around them better. They point to Jordan's supporting cast. As opposed to Lebron's supporting Heat cast. Now keep this in mind. The year after Jordan retired the 1st time (93-94 season), the Bulls finished 2nd in their division. Made the playoffs. Made it to the 2ns rd of the playoffs. Now what happened to Cleveland, the year after Lebron left? Anybody? Did the Cavs make the playoffs? If you put Lebron on that Bulls team, they still contend for a title. You could almost argue the Jordan had more help, than Lebron in Miami. Take away Bosh & Wade. Then take away Pippen & Grant or Kukoc. Then look at the rosters.
Heresy, I know. But just think about it.

[EKnight]

You're missing the point.

The point is not simply that LeBron is scoring more than anyone else ever has; that is easily refuted.  It's the efficiency with which he is playing.  Yeah, Jordan or Kobe or (AI, or Shaq, or the Admiral) could outdo LBJ's scoring, but I don't think Jordan or Kobe have ever had the kind of non-scoring impact that LBJ is having on the game right now.  The only player I can remember with a similar ability to dominate the game without taking a shot every trip down the floor was Magic.

To put this in perspective, since LeBron entered the league in 2003, he has scored 20,410 points on 14,979 shots.  In the same time frame, Kobe has scored 20,275 points on 15,486 shots.  So not only has Kobe scored less, he has taken over 500 more shots to do it.

Do you want to compare assists?
LBJ- 5,097
Kobe- 3,658

Rebounds?
LBJ- 5,351
Kobe- 3,971

Steals?
LBJ- 1,277
Kobe- 1,082

So since LBJ has entered the league, he has outscored Kobe straight up, he has been FAR more efficient in scoring, and he's demolished him in the other aspects of the game.  What is the argument, again?

Of course he's scored more points. He's played 20 more games during that time. 20 more games is 500 points. This is a nonsense argument. No one said anything about any of those other stats either. You really want to pull stuff from no where, let's compare what really counts, and the reason that MJ said hell take Kobe over LBJ: 5-1 rings.

And you can't think of anyone who dominated a game without scoring? Did you just never see Bird or Hakeem play? -EK

[Sunstroke]

Of course he's scored more points. He's played 20 more games during that time. 20 more games is 500 points. This is a nonsense argument.

So, the number of games played is more relevant to the number of points scored than the number of shots taken?

THAT is a nonsense argument...

[Spider-Dan]

Of course he's scored more points. He's played 20 more games during that time. 20 more games is 500 points.

How many more shots is 20 more games?  Please, do elaborate.

No one said anything about any of those other stats either.

I just did.  And the reason why I did is that even when Kobe is focusing on scoring above all, he still took more shots to score less points.  Not only is LBJ scoring more points, he's also doing everything else better, too!  That's the hallmark of the best player in the league.  Not sure what else you are looking for.

You really want to pull stuff from no where, let's compare what really counts, and the reason that MJ said hell take Kobe over LBJ: 5-1 rings.

Robert Horry has more rings than Kobe and LBJ put together.  What does being on a good team have to do with the discussion?

And you can't think of anyone who dominated a game without scoring?

"The only player I can remember with a similar ability to dominate the game without taking a shot every trip down the floor was Magic."

You know the word Magic in that sentence refers to a person, right?  Did you think I was talking about the team in Orlando or something?

[Sunstroke]

And you can't think of anyone who dominated a game without scoring? Did you just never see Bird or Hakeem play? -EK 

Not sure I ever saw Bird play a game where he wasn't a dominant scorer. The Great White Dope averaged 24.3 pts per game for his entire career, and led the Celtics in scoring 11 of his 13 seasons in the league (including seasons of 28.1, 28.7 and 29.9 ppg).

If you're going to cite an example of a player dominating without being a heavy scorer, go straight to Bill Russell and homestead there.

[EKnight]

Lmao, yeah, LBJ looked great getting his shit swatted TWICE by Kobe last night. -EK

[Fau Teixeira]

Lmao, yeah, LBJ looked great getting his shit swatted TWICE by Kobe last night. -EK

are you really beating your chest over a few plays in an all-star game?