Lebron is that good.

[Thundergod]

^^ Serious. It's hilarious how everyone who can't stand the guy just waits for that moment to bash him. And when the man plays well or meets expectations, it's immediatly pushed to the side with, "Yeah well..."

[Landshark]

Lmao, yeah, LBJ looked great getting his shit swatted TWICE by Kobe last night. -EK

In the All Star Game??  Really??   

[EKnight]

I'm not a hater. I think he's one of the top 2 players of his generation and I already said he's put together an amazing month. But the intimation that he's the best player EVER is ridiculous. He's won one title and at this point in his career is more known for choking and having to team up with two other superstars (as opposed to leading his team to a title) than he is known for consistently "greatest ever" play. I guess I should have expected this response from the this bipolar board though, who as a whole, seem to view everything in extremes. -EK

[Sunstroke]

He's won one title and at this point in his career is more known for choking...

Are you talking about LeBron James at age 28, or Michael Jordan at age 28...because both would be accurate.

At this point in his career, LeBron James is known as the greatest player in the game, as was Jordan at the same age. The only people who still think about LeBron's early years in Cleveland are the haters who aren't willing to give the greatest player in the game his proper due.

And, for the record, I am a Phoenix Suns fan...NOT a Heat fan.

[Landshark]

I guess I should have expected this response from the this bipolar board though, who as a whole, seem to view everything in extremes. -EK

Save dumb comments like this for your Twitter account

[mboss]

Jordan's age when he won his first title: 28 years, 3 months, 23 days

LeBron's age when he won his first title: 27 years, 5 months, 22 days

I said this in the LeBron hating thread a couple of years back... if people had judged Jordan by the same standard as they were judging LeBron, they would think Jordan is a one-dimensional scorer who would never win anything.

In fact, Jordan himself alludes to this in the Dream Team documentary... he says that back then, people thought he was a good player, but that he could never measure up to Magic.

True, but Lebron came into the league at 18, Jordan came in when he was 21. Jordan won a title in his 7th year and Lebron in his 9th after getting together with two other superstar players. Jordan had 3 titles by his 9th year. And Jordan sat out almost his entire 2nd year, only starting 7 games (playing 18 total) in 1985/86. And it's true that a lot of people around the league and media were rumbling that Jordan, while he was a great player, couldn't win a championship being the league scoring champion. And lets not forget Jordan played in an era where hand checking was legal and defenses actively tried to beat him up without the repercussions there are today with replay/Flagrant 1/2 calls.

Lebron has had a great season this year after having a great post season last year. The run he has been on lately is incredible, and he is the best player of this generation. But he is not at Jordan's level yet......he may get there at some point.

Through 9 years of their careers:
            Games Points  Asst   Reb    Steals   Turnovers
Jordan  667    21,541  3935  4219  1815    2006
James   689    19,045  4751  4943  1194    2299

If you take out the year he started only 7 games, Jordan averaged: 28.2, 37.1, 35, 32.5, 33.6, 31.5, 30.1, 32.6 in those 8 years.

Lebron's streak of efficiency and scoring in the last 2 weeks has been incredible, but you could pick out stretches of play from all the greats of the game. Lebron is already one of the greats....no doubt. You could pick out many stretches in NBA history......Jordan's run in 1989 where he had 10 triple doubles in 11 games, averaging 33.6 pts, 10.8 Rbs, 11.4 Ast.

Lebron has been great and will be for years......lets hope he doesn't retire and go play minor league baseball for the Marlins for a few years.

[Spider-Dan]

True, but Lebron came into the league at 18, Jordan came in when he was 21.

It's not like Jordan was off in the jungles of Vietnam from 18-21; he was busy gaining experience in college.

Age is age.  It's not like the league is going to kick LeBron out after a certain number of seasons because he's had an unfair advantage; they'll kick him out when he's too old to keep up, like everyone else.

And lets not forget Jordan played in an era where hand checking was legal and defenses actively tried to beat him up without the repercussions there are today with replay/Flagrant 1/2 calls.

Let's also not forget that Jordan's era was patty cake compared to the era of Wilt and Russell.  You can apply this argument to anyone.

Lebron has had a great season this year after having a great post season last year. The run he has been on lately is incredible, and he is the best player of this generation. But he is not at Jordan's level yet......he may get there at some point.

At age 28, LeBron has three conference championships, one NBA championship, and three NBA MVPs.
At age 28, Jordan had one NCAA championship, one conference championship, one NBA championship, and two NBA MVPs.

Those are pretty fair terms of comparison in my book.

Your notes on Jordan's scoring are nice... do you want to compare Jordan's assists/rebounds/steals next?  See, the thing is, while LeBron can keep up with pure scorers like Bird/Jordan/Kobe, he's also contributing much more in other facets of the game.

LBJ isn't really the same kind of player as Jordan.  He's closer to Magic or Oscar Robertson: someone who affects the entire court.

[mboss]

It's not like Jordan was off in the jungles of Vietnam from 18-21; he was busy gaining experience in college.

Age is age.  It's not like the league is going to kick LeBron out after a certain number of seasons because he's had an unfair advantage; they'll kick him out when he's too old to keep up, like everyone else.

Let's also not forget that Jordan's era was patty cake compared to the era of Wilt and Russell.  You can apply this argument to anyone.

Yes, but you are comparing the age in which they won their first NBA championship, Jordan didn't have the opportunity to win an NBA championship from 18-21. And sure, you can apply the "era" argument to anyone, but we are comparing these two players. It's just a fact of the eras they played in....that's all.

Your notes on Jordan's scoring are nice... do you want to compare Jordan's assists/rebounds/steals next? 

In fact I did if you look at my last post...I wasn't selective about the information I posted. James had 22 more games played in those stats posted, he had 700 more rebounds and 800 more assists while Jordan had 600+ more steals and 300 less turnovers. Whether you want to use regular stats or an aggregate "win shares" both are phenomenal players. Lebron has lead the league in win shares the last 4 years and Jordan did it 9 years in a row that he was in the league(minus the 2 years he took off for baseball).

See, the thing is, while LeBron can keep up with pure scorers like Bird/Jordan/Kobe, he's also contributing much more in other facets of the game.

LBJ isn't really the same kind of player as Jordan.  He's closer to Magic or Oscar Robertson: someone who affects the entire court.

I wouldn't disagree with him being more like Magic or Oscar than Jordan. Lebron is a physical freak of an athlete but has just recently really come into his own and starting to get that killer instinct. Jordan could do all those other things if he was asked to. In 1989 when they put him at the point he averaged 32.5 pts, 8 Rbs, 8 Ast. He had 44 double doubles, and 15 triple doubles. If you think Jordan didn't affect everything on the court you must not have watched much of his games.

All I'm saying is Lebron will probably be mentioned as one of the top 5 players to ever play the game if not the greatest depending on where he ends up with titles. But it's not really fair to compare them yet...Jordan is widely regarded as the greatest of all time. Maybe Lebron will get there over the next 5-6 years.

[Phishfan]

LBJ isn't really the same kind of player as Jordan.  He's closer to Magic or Oscar Robertson: someone who affects the entire court.

This may be the first and only time I will ever see anyone say Michael Jordan did not affect the entire court. I'm curious how you came up with that.

Now as for Lebron, I do not have a lot of love for the guy but I can admit he is likely the best player of his generation. I can also admit he is one of the all time greats. I cannot see how anyone can objectively say he is the all-time greatest at this stage though.

[Landshark]

This may be the first and only time I will ever see anyone say Michael Jordan did not affect the entire court. I'm curious how you came up with that.

I am curious as well, considering the Bulls never made it past the second round of the playoffs without him.  That proved that Scottie Pippen was nowhere near the go-to guy that Jordan was.

[Spider-Dan]

This may be the first and only time I will ever see anyone say Michael Jordan did not affect the entire court. I'm curious how you came up with that.

Jordan affected "the entire court" in the same way Kobe, or Shaq, or any other prolific scorer affects the "entire court"... just more of it.  Do you really need the difference between Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan explained to you?

Here's a hint:

What kind of player is Jordan without his scoring?
What kind of player is Kobe without his scoring?
What kind of player is Magic without his scoring?
What kind of player is LeBron without his scoring?

Now as for Lebron, I do not have a lot of love for the guy but I can admit he is likely the best player of his generation. I can also admit he is one of the all time greats. I cannot see how anyone can objectively say he is the all-time greatest at this stage though.

Anyone who said Jordan was the all-time greatest after his first ring would have been an idiot or incredibly biased Bulls/Tar Heels homer.

No one is saying that LBJ can hang up his shoes tomorrow and retire as the greatest.  All that I'm saying is that he's farther ahead than Jordan was at his age.  That's it.

[mboss]

Jordan affected "the entire court" in the same way Kobe, or Shaq, or any other prolific scorer affects the "entire court"... just more of it.  Do you really need the difference between Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan explained to you?

Here's a hint:

What kind of player is Jordan without his scoring?
What kind of player is Kobe without his scoring?
What kind of player is Magic without his scoring?
What kind of player is LeBron without his scoring?
Anyone who said Jordan was the all-time greatest after his first ring would have been an idiot or incredibly biased Bulls/Tar Heels homer.

No one is saying that LBJ can hang up his shoes tomorrow and retire as the greatest.  All that I'm saying is that he's farther ahead than Jordan was at his age.  That's it.

I don't know what you are really trying to say here....if ANY ONE of those guys decided to dominate in one or more other faucets of the game they would. Jordan was a 9 time 1st team All-Defense...if he would have been asked to play PG in more years he would have been one of the best at that. If he was told to play more in the post he could have been a darn good rebounder.

[Phishfan]

Jordan affected "the entire court" in the same way Kobe, or Shaq, or any other prolific scorer affects the "entire court"... just more of it.  Do you really need the difference between Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan explained to you?

Here's a hint:

What kind of player is Jordan without his scoring?
What kind of player is Kobe without his scoring?
What kind of player is Magic without his scoring?
What kind of player is LeBron without his scoring?
Anyone who said Jordan was the all-time greatest after his first ring would have been an idiot or incredibly biased Bulls/Tar Heels homer.

No one is saying that LBJ can hang up his shoes tomorrow and retire as the greatest.  All that I'm saying is that he's farther ahead than Jordan was at his age.  That's it.

Every one of those players is different than each other. The comparisons make you sound like you are backtracking a stupid comment (which it was). Michael Jordan was more than a prolific scorer and you know it. Was he a prolific scorer, yes. Was he also a great player in other aspects, yes.

As for your second point, I never said you have annointed James the best ever, but some people have. I was just adding that to keep it on topic.

[Spider-Dan]

If you really want to nitpick, you can say that any elite player "affects the entire court."  Even someone who does nothing but score (e.g. Reggie Miller) "affects the entire court" by who is covering him, who is left open, etc.

I ask you again: do you need me to explain the difference between Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan?  You act as if categorizing Jordan as a scorer is some sort of insult.  Wilt blocked a hell of a lot a shots and led the league in assists for a season.  He was still a scorer.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't know what you are really trying to say here....if ANY ONE of those guys decided to dominate in one or more other faucets of the game they would. Jordan was a 9 time 1st team All-Defense...if he would have been asked to play PG in more years he would have been one of the best at that. If he was told to play more in the post he could have been a darn good rebounder.

I have no interest in playing the "could have" game.  If LBJ didn't give a damn about rebounding or assists, could he score 50 PPG?  Who knows?  Who cares?