"The NBA’s Jason Collins says he’s gay"

[stinkyfish]

So basically, you're having a discussion about public perception and reaction that somehow excludes... popularity?  OK...

Well, I guess if you intentionally exclude Tebow's legion of devoted fans, you're right: by definition, "no one" likes him or praises him or defends him.  As long as you eliminate all of his supporters (which are arguably more numerous than any other player in the league), all that remains are people who denigrate him and criticize him.

Not sure what point that proves, but there you have it.

If a member of this forum talked about this gay NBA player  like I've seen members of this forum talk about Tebow's beliefs then that forum member would be called a bigot, bully, insensitive, and homophobic. Like I said, double standard.

[masterfins]

^^^I'll second that.

[Dave Gray]

I don't understand the comparison to Tebow.  Can someone please clarify for me?  I don't see the relevance.

[Phishfan]

I don't understand the comparison to Tebow.  Can someone please clarify for me?  I don't see the relevance.

We have not reached the we must reference Tebow x number of times quota yet.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't understand the comparison to Tebow.  Can someone please clarify for me?  I don't see the relevance.

Those who complain about Collins "advertising his lifestyle to the world" and who advocate not to "tell the whole world your personal business" seem to sing a different tune when that lifestyle or personal business happens to be in service of Christ.

[Spider-Dan]

If a member of this forum talked about this gay NBA player  like I've seen members of this forum talk about Tebow's beliefs then that forum member would be called a bigot, bully, insensitive, and homophobic.

If a member of this forum talked about this gay NBA player like I've seen members of this forum talk about Obama (or Bush), I imagine you would see the same thing.

The fact that you chose that as an example encapsulates the crux of the discussion:  you seem to believe that, just like choosing to be a Christian or choosing to be a liberal or choosing to be a Patriots fan, homosexuals make the choice to be gay.  And so you can't understand why some choices are criticized while other choices inexplicably (to you) get a "free pass."

If you think that criticizing someone's religious choices is equivalent to criticizing their sexuality, then no wonder you perceive a double standard.

[Fau Teixeira]

Well if sex isn't nature's biological function to reproduce, then perhaps you two biology scientists can provide everyone with your biased opinion of the natural function of human intercourse. Please, for the sake of us laymen here, just provide nature's reason for sexual intercourse in simple terms. You know, the one we all learned in 7th grade.

Here's the deal. I can give you evidence, i can give you ideas .. i can provide you with explanations and with rationale and logic .. but i can't put that all together and think for you.

The world doesn't operate at a 7th grade level. What you learned in the 7th grade is a broad stroke of how nature works, you learned the equivalent of painting a barn where nature is actually a fine oil painting hanging in a museum.

The study i liked before is based on observation and fact. It's been peer reviewed, accepted for publication and then had it's findings analyzed by dozens of contemporary scientists. It still holds up.

Not everything in life can be or should be simplified for the layman. If you want to argue about an adult topic with adults, then adult reasoning and adult logic and an adult level of knowledge is required. Sarcasm and appealing to ignorance won't cut it.

[Spider-Dan]

Fau, that's the thing:

You can link complicated studies with nuanced conclusions that have all sorts of caveats and technical exceptions...  or you can just say, "Because God made it that way," which any 7th grader can understand.

And before people object to more "religion-bashing," this is directly relevant: the vast majority of anti-homosexual arguments (from a civil rights perspective) are grounded in religion; religions that exist expressly to provide simplified answers to complicated questions of the unknown.

[Landshark]

My question is, why come out openly and flaunt your sexuality?  To me, your sexual preferences should be kept private and in the bedroom whether you're gay or straight.

[Dave Gray]

^ bullshit.  You talk about your wife all the time.

[CF DolFan]

I don't understand the comparison to Tebow.  Can someone please clarify for me?  I don't see the relevance.

Tebow is open about his Christianity. So much that people constantly make fun of him for it. He's been called lots of things and pretty much no joke has been sparred about him. Heck, even Saturday night live did a skit with Jesus and Tebow mocking both of them. I've heard the fact he is open about it makes it ok. So does this mean we can make fag jokes now about Jason?

How much tolerance would there be for someone referring to Jason as being a pole smoker? For instance. The pole smoker isn't get picked up by anybody. His career was over way before he brought this this announcement.  That's the same as calling Tebow a Jesus Freak or whatever derogatory term that has been used. 

[Landshark]

^ bullshit.  You talk about your wife all the time.

But I never discuss what happens in the bedroom and if anyone asks, I get very upset about it.

[Phishfan]

But I never discuss what happens in the bedroom and if anyone asks, I get very upset about it.

Well neither has Jason Collins so I don't think anyone really gets your point. He did no more than you do but you seem to have issues with him doing it.

[Fau Teixeira]

Tebow is open about his Christianity. So much that people constantly make fun of him for it. He's been called lots of things and pretty much no joke has been sparred about him. Heck, even Saturday night live did a skit with Jesus and Tebow mocking both of them. I've heard the fact he is open about it makes it ok. So does this mean we can make fag jokes now about Jason?

How much tolerance would there be for someone referring to Jason as being a pole smoker? For instance. The pole smoker isn't get picked up by anybody. His career was over way before he brought this this announcement.  That's the same as calling Tebow a Jesus Freak or whatever derogatory term that has been used. 

There's a few things that are muddled up here. And i think you're making an apples to oranges comparison.

Tolerance for being gay is the same as tolerance for being short or for being left handed.

Religion isn't an inherent trait, it's an opinion or a world view if you'd prefer. A christian has the same right to tolerance as a scientologist or a mormon, or a muslim, or a worshiper of Shiva.

Intolerance of a person for who he is is bigotry. intolerance of a person for what they believe is rude in our society but doesn't rise to the same level.

I purposefully kept religion out of this conversation because it isn't comparable to what we're discussing. I don't find it necessary to criticize your religion or anyone else's I won't tell you what your religion should be. That's up to you.

If gay marriage is against your religion then i support your right, under the 1st amendment of the constitution to not get gay married. 100% in your corner on this. You should never be forced to get gay married ever.

[Dave Gray]

If Collins were on the podium talking about how he liked to reach around when he was blowing a dude, I would understand your point, but that's not really on the table.

As for Tebow, Christianity is a belief.  Homosexuality is not.  It is a trait.  They aren't even remotely comparable.