Trayvon vs. Zimmerman - The trial

[CF DolFan]

Now we have a witness testifying Trayvon appears to have been  "ground and pounding" Zimmmerman before the gun shot. Seriously? It's becoming more and more obvious that the state filed charges only because of mob pressure.

[pondwater]

Now we have a witness testifying Trayvon appears to have been  "ground and pounding" Zimmmerman before the gun shot. Seriously? It's becoming more and more obvious that the state filed charges only because of mob pressure.

So we now know that the injuries to Zimmerman were due to the contact between the two. We also know that except for the fatal gunshot wound, Martin was injury free. In my opinion, that points to an ambush type attack. In the beginning of this, everyone was crying about how big a man Zimmerman was and how small of a kid Martin was. So if that's the case, are we to believe that a big man initiated contact with a small kid and couldn't get a shot in somewhere or do any damage? That doesn't make sense.

Also, even though the defense probably won't bring it up or try to say Martin was doing anything wrong before the encounter. Who's to say he wasn't casing houses. I mean who really walks almost 2 miles at night in heavy rain to go get some candy? That is strange behavior in my opinion.

[Phishfan]

^^^ To be fair, the rain caught him I believe. He didn't look to be wet from the store videos. Not sure where you are from but rain can come in rather quick around here.

[el diablo]

Seriously. How does someone perform a "ground & pound" and not land a single punch? How does someone perform a "ground & pound" and not add damage to a broken nose? Hoe does someone repeatedly slam someone's head against the concrete and not have any blood or DNA on their hands, fingernails or clothing? Remember George had hardly any hair and it was raining.
As far as eyewitness accounts, no one can account for right before the shot visibly.
After the shot, eyewitnesses say, along with George, say GZ was on top. George claims (during the reenactment video) he did so to "disarm" his assailant. The same assailant that hit him once in the nose with his non dominant hand. Yet somehow managed to land several other blows without leaving a mark on GZ or himself.
The state has a long way to go to prove GZ's "state of mind" prior to the altercation. I know what I feel. But the state still has to prove that. If the state fails to do that, GZ will be acquitted. Even if the state does prove that, there's a chance he could be acquitted. This is why I feel this way. I'm not seeing this jury identifying with the feeling of being treated like a criminal, when you're not a criminal. If you have to ask what that means, then you don't understand either. That's the adverse effect of profiling.

[el diablo]

^^^ To be fair, the rain caught him I believe. He didn't look to be wet from the store videos. Not sure where you are from but rain can come in rather quick around here.

Exactly. And you walk when you don't have a car. That's what did when I was a teenager in central Florida.

[Spider-Dan]

OK, first of all you are absolutely incorrect in how it works. The main point to be proven is that Zimmerman was an agressor and initiated physical contact. Following someone is not against the law. No one has to prove self defense.

IANAL, but I think that if you kill someone (and admit to the killing), you actually do have to prove that it was self-defense.  If you fail to prove that point, then you have essentially confessed to committing some form of non-justifiable homicide.

[pondwater]

IANAL, but I think that if you kill someone (and admit to the killing), you actually do have to prove that it was self-defense.  If you fail to prove that point, then you have essentially confessed to committing some form of non-justifiable homicide.

I'm no attorney but I would assume that what this case comes down to is that whoever physically assaulted the other one first is the responsible party here. The evidence shows that Zimmerman has physical injuries consistent with being assaulted. Martin on the other hand has no injuries. Which in my experience, is consistent with someone throwing the first punch or initiating the contact. That is an important point in my opinion.

[Phishfan]

Spider, it probably varies by state law. In Florida, we have very lenient gun laws and self defense laws. The prosecution would have to prove Zimmerman had been performing some illegal activity or that the shooting itself was illegal. That still puts burden of proof on them. Innocent until proven guilty stands in all cases.

Modifying to add, I looked up jury instructions for self defense in Florida and while skimming the latest Supreme Court ruling, it appears burden of proof still falls to prosecution.

I also found this article which summarized the instructions they received.

Florida's gun and self-defense laws will be a central focus of the trial and Zimmerman's lead defense attorney, Mark O'Mara, said repeatedly as he wrapped up questioning as part of the voir dire process early on Thursday that the state had the burden to prove that Zimmerman had not acted in self-defense.

"They (the prosecution) have to disprove that it was self-defense," he said.

Judge Nelson drove home the same point in her instruction on "justifiable use of deadly force" during the final phase of jury selection. She also made a pointed reference to Florida's so-called "Stand Your Ground" law, under which the use of lethal force is deemed lawful if an individual fears grievous bodily injury or death in a confrontation with an assailant.

"The danger facing the defendant need not to have been actual," Nelson told potential jurors. "However, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force.

"If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense, you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether the defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find the defendant not guilty," the judge added.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-usa-florida-shooting-jury-idUSBRE95J12620130620?feedType=RSS

[pondwater]

Exactly. And you walk when you don't have a car. That's what did when I was a teenager in central Florida.

He must really like skittles

[phinphan]

George is guilty.

Of carrying a gun when he was not supposed to. Neighberhood watch.The parents cashed in on that before the kid was put in the ground. So far prosecution has not shown a case and this will cost us all a lot of money.

[CF DolFan]

George is guilty.

Of carrying a gun when he was not supposed to. Neighberhood watch.The parents cashed in on that before the kid was put in the ground. So far prosecution has not shown a case and this will cost us all a lot of money.

How is he guilty of carrying as gun? He had a permit and he wasn't working in any capacity that wouldn't allow him to carry. He was a resident on his way to run an errand when a person peaked his interest.


The more I watch this the more I think the prosecution is going through the motions.  They don't even seemed to be surprised.

Modified to add some of the posts I just saw on the TV station ...

3:01
Comment From Silent Observer
What the prosecution is doing is trying to prove to the the public that the police were correct in releasing GZ in a self defense shooting------That's the only thing they can do.

3:01
Comment From jon
This is getting embarrassing for the state...hard to watch

[el diablo]

How is he guilty of carrying as gun? He had a permit and he wasn't working in any capacity that wouldn't allow him to carry. He was a resident on his way to run an errand when a person peaked his interest.


The more I watch this the more I think the prosecution is going through the motions.  They don't even seemed to be surprised.
 

So GZ wasn't acting on his role with the neighborhood watch that night. He was just a concerned resident/citizen who called the non emergency line for the heinous crime of walking. I seem to forget the legality of walking. My bad.

[CF DolFan]

So GZ wasn't acting on his role with the neighborhood watch that night. He was just a concerned resident/citizen who called the non emergency line for the heinous crime of walking. I seem to forget the legality of walking. My bad.

No ... you seem to forget the facts.

-George was heading out on an errand.
-The neighborhood has had break-ins.
- George noticed a person kind of meandering in the rain and not walking to a destination. According to prosecution's witnesses,  Trayvon hadn't made it home in 40 minutes from a store about a mile away. Oddly even in the rain he wasn't in a hurry.
- George called the police as he had been instructed several times before.
- Trayvon referred to George as "creepy-ass cracker" **but wasn't racially predjudiced**
-George is on record as saying he doesn't want to confront anyone when asked by an operator for more information in a previous call
- This operator said "you don't have to do that" yet continued to ask George for more information that he needed to seek out
- Prosecution witness says he sees George getting beat up on the bottom and when he went to call police heard the shot
- prosecution witness didn't recognize George in the picture taken immediately afterwards to see if she could identify him because of the swelling to his face

Lot's of things you seem to forget

Regardless of what you think about how bad his injuries are or him being a racist etc., this one thing is grounds enough in Florida to use deadly force .
- Prosecution witness says he sees George getting beat up on the bottom and when he went to call police heard the shot

[Phishfan]

So GZ wasn't acting on his role with the neighborhood watch that night. He was just a concerned resident/citizen who called the non emergency line for the heinous crime of walking. I seem to forget the legality of walking. My bad.

Nice talking point but it is all just blah, blah, blah. It has no relevance to the shooting itself.

[phinphan]

So GZ wasn't acting on his role with the neighborhood watch that night. He was just a concerned resident/citizen who called the non emergency line for the heinous crime of walking. I seem to forget the legality of walking. My bad.

I am tired of hearing he wasn't neighborhood watch but was on an errand. As soon as he involved himself with treyvon he was acting as neighborhood watch.I have no problem with what he did or the fact he was carrying. I am sure he was trained for the watch program. Off duty cop goes in store and some one comes in to rob it he pulls his ankle piece and subdues them technically he is a cop.Training etc.
All in all I can't tell who is the defence.Prosecution has made a case for self defence and they are prosecuting him for it.What a joke and waste of tax payer money.Heck I think I could have defended George on this one lol.