Trayvon vs. Zimmerman - The trial

[phinphan]

Also all the protests erupted in other states makes me wonder if they seen the trial, I mean the prosecution proved his case as much as the defense did. Its funny sanford stayed calm because they knew. His parents lowered their heads a couple of times at the states wittnesses. Here's the shocker they are ready to start a civil suit.

[bsmooth]

I wish people would let this go. First it was hispanic on black not white on black.
But that dose not work for the black community so they are using any means they can to keep this going. And the press is feeding the fire by showing images of travon at twelve and calling it white on black. I put this out there and think about it because it is the complete opposite of what the prosecution tried to do. What do you think the people would have said had the Dense for Casey Anthony tried to put pictures of her at twelve years old out their. Same difference.
You want to make this Black on White how about the five black teen thugs who carjacked a white man and shot and killed him. The girl was seventeen, guess what the state calls her. Its not a child they are trying her as an adult. The prosecution dosent care about right and wrong no more it is all about wins and loses. And they will cheat to get the wins at peoples expence. The special prosecuter brought in to try this case fired the guy who released all the information from trayvons phone you know the jewlery on the bed the hand holding a gun the underage naked pics of girls the pot plants. This guy has probably already killed people he was a thug. But if you want to rant and rave do it for the innocent guy drug out of his car and shot by more thugs.

The defense tried to have those pictures and texts included, but they had nothing to do with the case, and could not be verified.
Having an interest in guns as a teen does not mean you have probably killed someone in the past. It does not mean he took those pics. They could have been sent to him.
Martin does not meet the definition of a thug...thug wannabe can be argued. Zimmerman does have a past history of violence and crime, so he does meet the definition of a thug.

[phinphan]

Yeah I have tons of those pics people sent to my phone as well?
You are the perfect example the press is controlling you. If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck floats like a duck well you know.
As for Zimmerman have you ever tried to get a permit to carry a gun. They don't give them out to thugs.

[phinphan]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-murder-teen-girl-charged-adult-20130716,0,6464873.story

Here's something to protest. A real innocent. Where is everyone for this

[phinphan]

I searched his name and can not find a picture. I have clicked on more than twenty links

[Spider-Dan]

Anyway, so, Florida's laws are a little different. Ok. But, again - aren't you generally in favor of robust protections of the accused?

Not when they come at the expense of homicide victims.

To clarify: these specific type of "robust protections" (both SYG and this kind of shifting burden of proof) protect killers.  Now, did some (or even many) of these killers have a legitimate justification to kill?  Maybe.  But I want people to be wary and concerned about taking someone else's life.  I want them to be worried about trying to prove that they had no choice but to kill.  I don't want to make things easier and simpler and safer to kill another person.

And I can't help but think that if Florida DIDN'T have such defendant-favorable self-defense laws (which Zimmerman was extremely well-versed on), he might have thought, "Hmmm, I'd better let the police handle this, as if there's some sort of scuffle and I have to use my gun, I'm going to go to prison for a long time."  Instead, people are emboldened by the law to solve problems themselves.

[phinphan]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-murder-teen-girl-charged-adult-20130716,0,6464873.story

Here's something to protest. A real innocent. Where is everyone for this

Yo spider check this out

[Spider-Dan]

Is this the "people are dying of cancer so why are we arguing about the space program?" talk?

If you would like to make a new thread about a different trial, please do so.

[CF DolFan]

The defense tried to have those pictures and texts included, but they had nothing to do with the case, and could not be verified.
Having an interest in guns as a teen does not mean you have probably killed someone in the past. It does not mean he took those pics. They could have been sent to him.
Martin does not meet the definition of a thug...thug wannabe can be argued. Zimmerman does have a past history of violence and crime, so he does meet the definition of a thug.

That's a huge stretch on both accounts but it brings to question the idea of being a thug or gangsta. Why have we allowed becoming a "gansta"to be the cool thing?

Honestly. I came from low class area and I don't remember anyone who didn't want better. How in the world did we go from a society where little boys wanted to be police, fire, professional baseball players and doctors to wanting bagging clothes, lots of gold, and bitches/hoes at our feet?  While not everyone made it the original goal was well intended. today kids are coming out and aiming low. What does that say about our society moving ahead another 20-30 years?

[Phishfan]

Even if you have no chance? If you are surprised by the attack as Zimmerman has said that he was and never had a chance to flee you do not have to show you attempted to flee, but you can still claim self defense.

Yea I thought about how I left this but did not have time to go back and change it. Yes, you are correct. The exception to proving you tried to flee is proving you did not have a chance to flee. The burden still resides on the defendant at that point though.

[Phishfan]

Possibly. Do all the states agree on this or is it only the states with "stand your ground" laws that put the onus on the prosecution?

Each state is going to have their laws written a bit differently so it is difficult to know exactly how they are all structured. My best suggestion, study what your own states say about this.

[Pappy13]

Each state is going to have their laws written a bit differently so it is difficult to know exactly how they are all structured.

Agreed. Which is why the whole hypothetical "Well if this didn't happen in a SYG state..." is a bunch of nonsense. If it happened in a different state it may have played out differently, but it may have played out it exactly the same too regardless of whether or not that state had a SYG law because the fact is that Zimmerman didn't use a SYG defense, he used an ordinary self-defense defense.

[Spider-Dan]

That's a huge stretch on both accounts but it brings to question the idea of being a thug or gangsta. Why have we allowed becoming a "gansta"to be the cool thing?

Do you mean like Al Capone and Michael Corleone?

Gangster idolization has been going on for longer than either of us has been alive.

[Spider-Dan]

Agreed. Which is why the whole hypothetical "Well if this didn't happen in a SYG state..." is a bunch of nonsense. If it happened in a different state it may have played out differently, but it may have played out it exactly the same too regardless of whether or not that state had a SYG law because the fact is that Zimmerman didn't use a SYG defense, he used an ordinary self-defense defense.

Once again:

In many states, a defendant that claims self-defense assumes the burden of proving that the homicide was justified.  In Florida, the prosecution has to prove that the homicide was NOT justified.  None of this has anything to do with Stand Your Ground.  The only correlation is that states with SYG laws also tend to be more likely to shift the burden of proof (in self-defense) to the prosecution in general, but those are two separate things.  As previously stated, New York is not a SYG state, but does shift the burden of proof in self-defense cases to the prosecution.

On a related note, here's an interesting statistic I just saw: the difference in killings being found as justifiable in SYG states vs. non-SYG states.  This graph is... eye-opening:

[masterfins]

Do you mean like Al Capone and Michael Corleone?

Gangster idolization has been going on for longer than either of us has been alive.

You left out Robin Hood.