Trayvon vs. Zimmerman - The trial

[Spider-Dan]

The only way that black accuseds "benefit" at a disproportionate rate is in that they are more likely to kill black victims.  Black victims certainly don't benefit from SYG laws.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Unless you're saying that conviction/acquittal statistics are interchangeable with the truth of crime? 

What else do we have?  Your gut feeling that this case went the wrong way? 

A higher percentage of black are in jail than whites, because blacks commit more crimes.  Period.   

And race doesn't directly determine your likelihood of success at an unjustified acquittal.  Wealth does.  A wealthy black man can get away with murder (see O.J. Simpson {murdered two whites}, Ray Lewis etc.)   Indirectly yes, b/c there are more wealthy whites than blacks.   

[Spider-Dan]

What else do we have?  Your gut feeling that this case went the wrong way? 

[...]

A wealthy black man can get away with murder (see O.J. Simpson {murdered two whites}, Ray Lewis etc.)

Thanks for contradicting yourself (and proving my point) in the same post.  Are you leaning on your gut feeling that OJ murdered two people?  Because he was acquitted of that charge.

If conviction/acquittal statistics are the arbiter of truth, then OJ and Casey Anthony did not kill anyone.  You can't say that OJ and Casey got away with murder at the same time you're claiming that a court ruling of "self-defense" means it has to be true.

By the logic you used earlier, if whites are "more likely" to kill blacks in legitimate self-defense than vice versa, then we must also conclude that wealthy people are "more likely" to be charged with crimes that they didn't commit.  Surely you can see the glaring fallacy in that position.

[pondwater]

The only way that black accuseds "benefit" at a disproportionate rate is in that they are more likely to kill black victims.  Black victims certainly don't benefit from SYG laws.

So, we now know that black killers use and benefit from SYG at a disproportionate rate. You also stated that, "black accuseds "benefit" at a disproportionate rate is in that they are more likely to kill black victim". To me "more likely" means, the majority of the time. So what you are saying is that the majority of these cases are blacks killing other blacks. Logically, SYG isn't as big a problem as black on black violence. Which would correlate with this post from CF

That's pretty silly. I don't know any kid who grew up in the 70's and wanted to be Al Capone. I'm sure there were some but it wasn't a glamorous and sought after accomplishment.

People like you are central to what's wrong with our country. Instead of dealing with anything that is an issue you look to point and blame something else.

I heard a black man going off about Al Sharpton on the radio today and talking about these same kind of things. Reminded me of Bill Cosby. He said Sharpton doesn't care about what really hurts black people. All he cares about is getting paid. If not he wouldn't be concerned with manipulating one latino on black crime and would focus on black on black crime, blacks leading teen preganancy, blacks leading single families, blacks leading high school drop-outs, blacks leading the lines of welfare. He said that worrying about how white people affect blacks isn't helping the black community one little bit and pointed to the Rasmussen poll from a few weeks ago.  It showed that even blacks believe other blacks are more racist than whites. BTW ... that same poll also pointed out that only "white liberals" voted white people more racist than blacks. Meaning Asians, and Latinos also voted blacks as being the most racist. 

He went on to say that he's been called uncle Tom more than *n* and that somehow bettering himself and raising his family was to be portrayed a negative in today's society.

Blacks lead in many of the problem categories, that is the truth. Instead of acknowledging that truth and working to fix the problems. People like you would rather point the blame to others, namely whitey. It's amazing that you care so much about Trayvon and SYG, yet you guys are killing each other more than anyone else in the counrty. Then complain that a Hispanic(whitey incognito) killed a black young adult who committing felony assault on him. Yeah right, makes plenty of sense.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Surely you can see the glaring fallacy in that position.

What I can see is the glaring fallacy that Zimmerman must be guilty and the only reason he go off was he was white, that you and the other keep repeating. 

[Spider-Dan]

So, we now know that black killers use and benefit from SYG at a disproportionate rate. You also stated that, "black accuseds "benefit" at a disproportionate rate is in that they are more likely to kill black victim". To me "more likely" means, the majority of the time. So what you are saying is that the majority of these cases are blacks killing other blacks.

That's an interesting interpretation, particularly since I just made a post with statistics showing that in Florida, there were 69 SYG cases involving white killers (57 of which were white on white) and 29 SYG cases involving black killers (22 of which were black on black).  Last I checked, 57 is still more than 22.  Maybe you disagree?

Furthermore, as I've said repeatedly, when the victim is white there is a MUCH higher probability that the killing will NOT be found justifiable (regardless of the race of the accused).  Why is that?

[Spider-Dan]

What I can see is the glaring fallacy that Zimmerman must be guilty and the only reason he go off was he was white, that you and the other keep repeating.

You would think that after the 5th or 6th time I reference "Florida laws," you might get what I'm driving at.

If you really want to examine the racial component, Martin's race was much more significant than Zimmerman's.  As conservatives are oh-so-enthusiastic to point out, Zimmerman Is Hispanic.  If Martin and Zimmerman were both white, Zimmerman would probably be in jail.  Is that better?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If Martin and Zimmerman were both white, Zimmerman would probably be in jail.  Is that better?

Nope.  If both Martin and Zimmerman were both white, when the police and DA concluded there wasn't enough evidence to arrest and have a trial the whole matter would be over and it wouldn't have been a national news story just a short lived local one. 

[Spider-Dan]

Nope.  If both Martin and Zimmerman were both white, when the police and DA concluded there wasn't enough evidence to arrest and have a trial the whole matter would be over and it wouldn't have been a national news story just a short lived local one.

I imagine that if Martin were white, the part of the 911 tape where Zimmerman referred to him as an "asshole" and a "fucking punk" would have come under slightly more scrutiny.

The idea that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest is a ridiculous red herring that was clearly disproven when the judge refused summary dismissal.  And it's kind of hard to buy the conspiracy theories about judges making decisions based on saving their jobs when the district attorney clearly didn't give a damn about his electoral repercussions when he tried to sweep the case under the rug. Let me guess, the DA was just more dedicated to the rule of law than the judge?

The only reason why it appeared that there was no evidence to arrest was because of the half-assed, disinterested investigation by the authorities in charge at the time.  And lack of motivation by law enforcement would certainly be a symptom if racial bias were in play.

[el diablo]

Nope.  If both Martin and Zimmerman were both white, when the police and DA concluded there wasn't enough evidence to arrest and have a trial the whole matter would be over and it wouldn't have been a national news story just a short lived local one. 

You're right. There's no way Fox would cover a story like that. There's no way Hannity takes a phone call from a white shooter, who kills an unarmed white teenager. Th questions would still be the same. How could an unarmed person, minding their own business, be treated like a criminal, in a neighborhood, that they had a right to be in?

The outrage is from, how is a black teenager not afforded the same benefit of the doubt? The color of the shooter doesn't matter. The color of the victim shouldn't either.

[Phishfan]

the only reason he go off was he was white 

Actually he is not white and this is the fallacy that keeps getting repeated. Zimmerman refers to himself as hispanic. If Zimmerman is white then Obama is not our first black President.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

You're right. There's no way Fox would cover a story like that.

The shooting wasn't major news.  The non-arrest wasn't major news. 

What got made it news was the protests.  So if it wasn't for the racial angle this would never been a major news story. 

[Spider-Dan]

The shooting wasn't major news.  The non-arrest wasn't major news. 

What got made it news was the protests.

And the protests were entirely because of the non-arrest.  (Which, it bears mentioning, was a nationally run news story before any of the protests took place.)

It's like you're saying that the Casey Anthony coverage was because of the trial and not the murder.

[pondwater]

That's an interesting interpretation, particularly since I just made a post with statistics showing that in Florida, there were 69 SYG cases involving white killers (57 of which were white on white) and 29 SYG cases involving black killers (22 of which were black on black).  Last I checked, 57 is still more than 22.  Maybe you disagree?

Yes 57 is still more than 22 last time I looked. However, you fail to take into account(or conveniently ignore)population demographics. According to the 2010 chart above from the Florida office of Economic and Demographic research, the racial distributions of Florida are as follows 80.6% White, 16.5% African-American, and 2.9% other
Therefore, the ratio is:

80.6% white with 57 white on white killings = .707 killings per 1% white population

VS

16.5% black with 22 black on black killings = 1.33 killings per 1% black population

Last time I checked, 1.33 is larger than .707. I was never good in math so please feel free to correct me if my math is incorrect. The numbers are even more skewed if you account for all killings by race instead of just white on white or black on black. So blacks kill more overall and within race. I'm pretty sure you cannot argue this point any better than the prosecution unsuccessfully argued murder2 in the Zimmerman case, but I'm sure you will try, lol.

[pondwater]

And the protests were entirely because of the non-arrest.  (Which, it bears mentioning, was a nationally run news story before any of the protests took place.)

It's like you're saying that the Casey Anthony coverage was because of the trial and not the murder.

So the protests were entirely because of the non-arrest? It seem that I remember Mr Sharpton, Mr Jackson, and some of the protesters proclaiming that they just wanted Zimmerman to have his day in court. Well now Zimmerman has had is day in court and he is not guilty. Yet still all the same clowns are still crying, whining, and protesting. If there ever was the smallest shred of validity to the protesters claims, the continued protests are erasing them completely. My dilemma on the matter aside from most of the protesters playing the race card. On one hand, they really should sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up because they are showing their inner racism. However, I do like watching people make fools and idiots of themselves. Fair is fair and justice has been served, It just wasn't the "justice 4 trayvon" that the emotionally hijacked and racists wanted.