Trayvon vs. Zimmerman - The trial

[Spider-Dan]

80.6% white with 57 white on white killings = .707 killings per 1% white population

VS

16.5% black with 22 black on black killings = 1.33 killings per 1% black population

So how does this prove that blacks somehow disproportionately benefit from SYG laws?

When the victim is white, the SYG conviction rate is 29/67 (43.3%)
When the victim is black, the SYG conviction rate is 7/32 (21.9%)

Isn't this like saying that blacks disproportionately consume police resources because they are busy being murdered?

So the protests were entirely because of the non-arrest?

Yes, the protests before the trial (and all the revealed evidence up to and during the trial) were entirely because an unarmed 17-year-old was shot down by an armed adult without even being arrested.

Yet still all the same clowns are still crying, whining, and protesting. If there ever was the smallest shred of validity to the protesters claims, the continued protests are erasing them completely.

It appears that you're saying that no matter what happens in the trial or what the verdict is, as long as a trial existed everyone should be happy?

Not sure why you'd need to go that far; since people protested Zimmerman not being arrested, by your logic, arresting (and then not charging) him should have been enough to shut the complainers up, right?

Fair is fair and justice has been served [...]

Yes, in exactly the same sense that justice was served to Casey Anthony.

[pondwater]

So how does this prove that blacks somehow disproportionately benefit from SYG laws?

When the victim is white, the SYG conviction rate is 29/67 (43.3%)
When the victim is black, the SYG conviction rate is 7/32 (21.9%)

Actually, you're deflecting the point being made. As said, blacks seem to be killing people more than all other races in the country. Your numbers and the state demographics seem to prove that. I'm pretty sure that the rest of the country is somewhat the same.

Isn't this like saying that blacks disproportionately consume police resources because they are busy being murdered?
Yes, the protests before the trial (and all the revealed evidence up to and during the trial) were entirely because an unarmed 17-year-old was shot down by an armed adult without even being arrested.
It appears that you're saying that no matter what happens in the trial or what the verdict is, as long as a trial existed everyone should be happy?

No they don't have to be happy. But they don't have to go on some useless "whitey is the racist media campaign" either.

Not sure why you'd need to go that far; since people protested Zimmerman not being arrested, by your logic, arresting (and then not charging) him should have been enough to shut the complainers up, right?
Yes, in exactly the same sense that justice was served to Casey Anthony.

Just like with Anthony, it's over. Nothing can be done. You won't hear me crying or whining about it.

[masterfins]

Actually, you're deflecting the point being made.

DING DING DING DING DING, we have a winner.

[Spider-Dan]

Actually, you're deflecting the point being made.

You said (in regards to Florida):

So, we now know that black killers use and benefit from SYG at a disproportionate rate.
[...]
Logically, SYG isn't as big a problem as black on black violence.

Black accused, black victim: 6 convictions, 16 acquittals, 72.7% justified.
Non-black accused, black victim: 1 conviction, 9 acquittals, 90% justified.

Is your point that there are more black murderers out there taking disproportionate advantage of their... higher probability of being convicted?  I guess black privilege counts for something!

As said, blacks seem to be killing people more than all other races in the country.

Do you also believe that wealthy people are unfairly accused of committing crimes more often than poor people?

[pondwater]

You said (in regards to Florida):

Even though this discussion is in regards to Florida, I'm pretty sure that black people murder more as a total for the country also.

Black accused, black victim: 6 convictions, 16 acquittals, 72.7% justified.
Non-black accused, black victim: 1 conviction, 9 acquittals, 90% justified.

Is your point that there are more black murderers out there taking disproportionate advantage of their... higher probability of being convicted?  I guess black privilege counts for something!

I think you know my point and would rather dance around the issue. My point is that black people in the United States kill more than any other race. Not just black on black. Black on everyone. You want to point to SYG laws as a major problem instead of admitting that blacks killing people is a much greater problem in the country. Do you dispute that blacks kill more people? Yes, no, or lets continue play the spin game.

Do you also believe that wealthy people are unfairly accused of committing crimes more often than poor people?

What are you talking about? Are you deflecting again spider?

[Spider-Dan]

Is your secret point that Martin deserved to die because black people are probably murderers anyway?  I'm struggling to figure out why you are singularly focused on black people convicted of murder in a thread about a black victim of homicide.

I also find it rather comical that, in a thread about (black) Trayvon Martin being killed by (non-black) George Zimmerman, you think the mention of the number of black victims in SYG states whose killers go free is "deflecting," while your repeated invocations of the number of black murderers is somehow highly relevant and on-topic.

Did Martin kill Zimmerman and get away with it?
No?
Then what point could you possibly be trying to make (outside of naked race-baiting)?

[pondwater]

Is your secret point that Martin deserved to die because black people are probably murderers anyway?  I'm struggling to figure out why you are singularly focused on black people convicted of murder in a thread about a black victim of homicide.

I also find it rather comical that, in a thread about (black) Trayvon Martin being killed by (non-black) George Zimmerman, you think the mention of the number of black victims in SYG states whose killers go free is "deflecting," while your repeated invocations of the number of black murderers is somehow highly relevant and on-topic.

Did Martin kill Zimmerman and get away with it?
No?
Then what point could you possibly be trying to make (outside of naked race-baiting)?

No secret point at all. The reality is that SYG laws aren't the problem, they weren't even used in this case. If SYG laws had nothing to do with this case, why is everyone bitching about them? Because they(you)will do anything except admit the real problems. It's always someone or something else at fault. Hell, you can't even admit that blacks kill more than anyone else in this country and that's a known fact. That says something about you. If you think stating facts and telling the truth is race-baiting, so be it. However, I do believe that the race baiting started Feb 2012 by Sharpton, Jackson, and "watchdogs of the oppressed". And they haven't stopped yet and they never will.

[Spider-Dan]

If we are just randomly bringing up completely unrelated Bad Facts About Black People, are you sure you don't want to mention graduation rates or single motherhood or welfare recipients?  I mean, if you are going to just start listing off Reasons Why Blacks Are Bad that have nothing to do with this case, at least do so with enthusiasm.

Blacks didn't kill anyone in THIS case.  A black minor was killed.  And your response is to cite statistics about black killers, while you simultaneously complain about race baiting?  Deflection, indeed.

And FYI:  the first statistics I cited are not from SYG cases, but from justifiable homicide claims in SYG states (of which Florida is one).  The second set of Florida-only statistics (that you cited) specifically included Martin, so whatever metric they used was not restricted to cases in which SYG was claimed as a defense.

[el diablo]

No secret point at all. The reality is that SYG laws aren't the problem, they weren't even used in this case. If SYG laws had nothing to do with this case, why is everyone bitching about them? Because they(you)will do anything except admit the real problems. It's always someone or something else at fault. Hell, you can't even admit that blacks kill more than anyone else in this country and that's a known fact. That says something about you. If you think stating facts and telling the truth is race-baiting, so be it. However, I do believe that the race baiting started Feb 2012 by Sharpton, Jackson, and "watchdogs of the oppressed". And they haven't stopped yet and they never will.

Talk about deflection. SYG laws had everything to do with this case.  No, there wasn't a hearing before the trial of 2nd degree murder. But the law as written, excuses this type of homicide. It allows for the perceived, not actual fear of something happening. Which allows for "race baiters" to believe that it's believable for a 17 yr old kid, could have a murderous rage, unprovoked, not under the influence, and while on the phone. Why? "Well you know, blacks kill more in this country. Its in their nature." In Florida when SYG laws are applied, this is proven to not be the case. 

FYI: As stated before, the first protester was Tracy Martin. Not Al Sharpton.

[Phishfan]

It allows for the perceived, not actual fear of something happening.

If you perceive fear it is actual fear. I'm not sure what your point is here.

[pondwater]

If we are just randomly bringing up completely unrelated Bad Facts About Black People, are you sure you don't want to mention graduation rates or single motherhood or welfare recipients?  I mean, if you are going to just start listing off Reasons Why Blacks Are Bad that have nothing to do with this case, at least do so with enthusiasm.

No random "bad" facts. Just relevant true facts. You have implied SYG laws are bad and need to be repealed. You have also made the implication that these laws are unfairly biased and racist against blacks. In response I gave you information that show that blacks disproportionately benefit from SYG laws. The reason that blacks, being a much lower percentage of the population, benefit so much from SYG laws is because they kill at a much higher percentage. If you are going to discuss SYG, convictions rates, and claim bias against blacks. You also have to look at homicide rates of blacks also. Here you go, http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/youthviolence/stats_at-a_glance/hr_age-race.html. Now, before we go any further with this conversation. Can you admit that blacks kill more people in the United States than any other race at a substantially disproportionate rate while being only 13-15% of the population? YES or NO?

Blacks didn't have a chance to kill anyone in THIS case.  A black minor was killed while committing felony assault on an off duty neighborhood watch member investigating a suspicious person.  And your response is to cite statistics about black killers, while you simultaneously complain about race baiting?  Deflection, indeed.

There, I fixed that for you and added the relevant facts that you conveniently left out.

[pondwater]

FYI: As stated before, the first protester was Tracy Martin. Not Al Sharpton.

Is that the same Tracy Martin that said that the screams for help on the 911 recordings wasn't his son's voice? Or was that just whitey propaganda?

[pondwater]

If you perceive fear it is actual fear. I'm not sure what your point is here.

You are correct, some people only see what they want to see, not reality. I heard someone on the craptastic MSNBC saying that Zimmerman shouldn't have been carrying a weapon. I guess they have never heard of the constitution or bill of rights. But what if Zimmerman didn't have a weapon when the physical altercation started? For one, Trayvon would be alive today. Trayvon would have severely injured or maybe even killed Zimmerman. And finally, Trayvon would have been arrested and prosecuted for felony assault or murder.

[phinphan]

Stands and claps loudly. They certainly wouldn't have resorted to showing pics of him when he was twelve and trying to hide his history and make him into an altar boy.
I am over this race cr@p A racist is pissed zimmerman got off. Two birds one stone.
Whats even better is the hispanic community let it go about Zimmerman being white.
Any other case they called him white the hispanic community would have been in uproar.

[pondwater]

Stands and claps loudly. They certainly wouldn't have resorted to showing pics of him when he was twelve and trying to hide his history and make him into an altar boy.
I am over this race cr@p A racist is pissed zimmerman got off. Two birds one stone.
Whats even better is the hispanic community let it go about Zimmerman being white.
Any other case they called him white the hispanic community would have been in uproar.

Sorry for the late reply Phin, finally got a day off, lol. Anyhow, I was reading something interesting the other day. I've kept hearing the blacks and liberals keep saying "What if Trayvon would have been white?" or "What if the roles would have been reversed?". Well I don't think they want the answer to that question! Just look up Roderick Scott. In 2009, a linebacker sized black guy that shot a skinny 17 white guy. The cases are similar. I don't recall Sharpton, Jackson, blacks, liberals, or race baiters raising much stink about the killing. I bet whites didn't raise any stink.