Who would you put on the Dolphins' Mount Rushmore?

[Dave Gray]

I just can't get over Taylor going to the Jets.  I think it disqualifies him.  It'd be like if George Washington went and took over as President for the British for a year at the end of his political career.

Marino, Shula, Csonka, Robbie

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I just can't get over Taylor going to the Jets.  I think it disqualifies him. 

So Brett Favre doesn't belong on Greenbays? 

[Spider-Dan]

Marino also "won nothing," yet he would be the first player called in nearly everyone's lists.

[Spider-Dan]

So Brett Favre doesn't belong on Greenbays?

By that logic, Jerry Rice would also not belong on SF's, as many 49er fans have more consistent hatred for the Raiders than any of their divisional rivals.

[MikeO]

Marino also "won nothing," yet he would be the first player called in nearly everyone's lists.

Marino led the team to a Super Bowl and 3 AFC Championship games in his carrer. He won big playoff games. He led the team to meaningful games. JT and Zach did not. BIG DIFFERENCE!

[Spider-Dan]

Marino led the team to a Super Bowl and 3 AFC Championship games in his carrer. He won big playoff games. He led the team to meaningful games. JT and Zach did not. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Marino still won nothing of consequence (unless we are going to go around flashing conference championship rings like Ron Jaworski).

You should not be playing the "team success" card during any conversation in which Marino is the preferred candidate.  Doing so means Marino clearly takes a backseat to Griese, which is damn near lunacy.

On a somewhat related note, it would make my decade if there were a picture of Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, or Steve Tasker doing this pose:

]

...with these:

[el diablo]

If you can't blame Marino for an inept defense, you can't blame Taylor or Thomas for an inept offense. With that said, Taylor got my vote for the 4th spot.

[MikeO]

Marino still won nothing of consequence (unless we are going to go around flashing conference championship rings like Ron Jaworski).

Of course team success plays a factor. While you don't necessarily have to have won a championship you should have at least been in some meaningful playoff games and won a couple! How many losing seasons did Marino have...1 (1988).

Marino won league MVP. Marino went to a Super Bowl and led his team there. He won multiple division titles. He actually led a team that won big playoff games on more than one occasion over the course of his career. He is in the NFL Hall of Fame (JT has an outside shot but its no given and Zach has no shot in hell of getting in) And while conference championship rings aren't anything special....at least Marino played in 3 AFC Title games with the Fins and won 1. How many did Zach and JT play in with the Fins? Oh yeah...none!

Plus Marino when he retired owned EVERY MAJOR record for his position.  Combine Marino's personal accomplishments with BIG games his team won and its not even a comparison over JT and Zach two solid players who didn't lead their Fins teams anywhere

[MikeO]

If you can't blame Marino for an inept defense, you can't blame Taylor or Thomas for an inept offense. With that said, Taylor got my vote for the 4th spot.

Can't put JT or Zach on that Mt Rushmore when you have multiple Dolphins HALL OF FAME players off of it.

Either its Joe Robie (obvious reasons) or one of the Hall Of Famers for the 4th spot.

[MikeO]

JT's number retirement is a foregone conclusion.

It will NEVER happen! And I would bet a large sum of money on it. They aren't going to retire JT's number. He would have to first make the Hall of Fame (which is no lock to happen) and then you would have to put him in the debate with the other Dolphins Hall of Famers who don't have their number retired.  And in that conversation JT sinks to the bottom.

[el diablo]

Can't put JT or Zach on that Mt Rushmore when you have multiple Dolphins HALL OF FAME players off of it.

Either its Joe Robie (obvious reasons) or one of the Hall Of Famers for the 4th spot.

When it becomes a consensus vote, then your argument would hold water.

[Spider-Dan]

Can't put JT or Zach on that Mt Rushmore when you have multiple Dolphins HALL OF FAME players off of it.

JT is not even eligible to enter yet.  Please don't be ridiculous.

The fact that you think JT has "an outside shot" is equally absurd.  He has a reasonable chance of being a first-ballot HOFer and is damn near guaranteed to get in.  There has never been a DPOY with 3+ first-team All-Pro selections that DIDN'T eventually go into the HOF.

Joe Robbie isn't in the HOF either (and with the duration of eligibility he's had, it's safe to say he'll never be in there), so you've blown up your own selection there.  As for the others:

- Buoniconti had his best years with the Patriots, not the Dolphins
- Clayton and Webb have had many years to get into the HOF and have never even been finalists
- Larry Little, Dwight Stephenson, and Paul Warfield have arguments, but none of them was ever even the best player (on that side of the ball) on their own team, much less the entire league
- Zach doesn't need an explanation

[MikeO]

JT is not even eligible to enter yet.  Please don't be ridiculous.

The fact that you think JT has "an outside shot" is equally absurd.  He has a reasonable chance of being a first-ballot HOFer and is damn near guaranteed to get in.  There has never been a DPOY with 3+ first-team All-Pro selections that DIDN'T eventually go into the HOF.

Joe Robbie isn't in the HOF either (and with the duration of eligibility he's had, it's safe to say he'll never be in there), so you've blown up your own selection there.  As for the others:

- Buoniconti had his best years with the Patriots, not the Dolphins
- Clayton and Webb have had many years to get into the HOF and have never even been finalists
- Larry Little, Dwight Stephenson, and Paul Warfield have arguments, but none of them was ever even the best player (on that side of the ball) on their own team, much less the entire league
- Zach doesn't need an explanation

Let's shoot some of these down one by one....


-I know JT isn't eligible yet, but when he is he isn't a 1st ballot guy. He might never get it and it will probably be a long wait if he does. It took guys like Chris Doleman years to make it and they have similar stats (Dolemans are better though) and both are borderline guys. JT has less sacks than Doleman and it took Doleman some 12-13 years to get in. JT will have a similar wait or longer! If you think JT has a shot of being a 1st ballot hall of famer player you are lost on this issue. LOST! Michael Strahan didn't get 1st ballot. He has 2 more carer sacks than JT, won a ring, and was more dominate during his career (you would probably disagree with that but the vast majority would say Strahan was a better player).

-Clayton and Webb aren't hall of fame players...what's your point? They shouldn't be on this Mt Rushmore either! Webb shouldn't even be in the RING OF HONOR I think that's a joke honestly. But that's a different debate for a different day

-Few owners ARE in the Hall of Fame. Robbie isn't a worthy owner to make the Hall. Not even close! But he did start the damn franchise so he should get some credit for that for christ sakes when you are doing a Dolphins Mt. Rushmore. When talking about a non-player like an owner whether he is in the Hall of Fame really isn't a factor. The guy is the owner of the ONLY undefeated team, built a mini-dynasty in the early 70's, hired Shula, and built a stadium with no public funding. That counts for something. And I damn sure rank Robbie higher than the likes of Zach and JT. Two guys who won nothing during their time here on a defense that always underachieved in crunch time.

[Dave Gray]

So Brett Favre doesn't belong on Greenbays? 

That's for them to decide.  I would exclude Taylor for that reason and choose Robbie instead.

[Spider-Dan]

-I know JT isn't eligible yet, but when he is he isn't a 1st ballot guy. He might never get it and it will probably be a long wait if he does. It took guys like Chris Doleman years to make it and they have similar stats (Dolemans are better though) and both are borderline guys. JT has less sacks than Doleman and it took Doleman some 12-13 years to get in.  JT will have a similar wait or longer! If you think JT has a shot of being a 1st ballot hall of famer player you are lost on this issue. LOST! Michael Strahan didn't get 1st ballot

Doleman has less first-team All-Pros and never won DPOY.  And yeah, they both have more sacks.  Meanwhile, neither one has more INTs (JT has 8 to Strahan's 4), JT has more forced fumbles than either (JT has 46 to Strahan's 24), JT has more fumble recoveries than either (JT has 29 to Strahan's 15), and JT has 9 defensive TDs to the 6 TDs of Doleman and Strahan combined.

So basically, you're comparing one player (Doleman) who was never the best defender in the league at any point, and another player (Strahan) who has 2 more career sacks and has been damn near doubled by JT in practically every other major category.  And Strahan was a finalist in his first year of eligibility.

DPOY is a big deal.

-Few owners ARE in the Hall of Fame.

AFC owners in the Hall of Fame:

Paul Brown, Al Davis, Lamar Hunt, Art Modell, Art Rooney, Dan Rooney, Ralph Wilson

All 7 of those gentlemen were AFC owners at the same time Robbie was the owner of the Dolphins.