Zimmerman at it again

[CF DolFan]

I've read in multiple sources that she was not alone. The quote that seems to come to mind is something like, "we wanted to find him guilty of something but based on the law, we couldn't." That's certainly not an endorsement for innocence. -EK

Yea ... that's not how I remember it. One of the jurors who voted not guilty said "I have no doubt George feared for his life in the situation he was in at the time,"  while the one juror who initially voted guilty said "In our hearts we felt he was guilty,” right before she said she didn't even think it should have gone to trial. Publicity stunt she called it.

I don't remember anything from the other members so I would have to do some serious speculation in assuming if they thought he was guilty of murder.


Personally I think the jurors were in damage control at that point anyway as tensions were pretty high. I would be hard pressed to hold any of them accountable to what they said in the immediate weeks afterwards. I can't imagine the stress they were under trying to justify their votes one way or the other.

[EKnight]

Yea ... that's not how I remember it. One of the jurors who voted not guilty said "I have no doubt George feared for his life in the situation he was in at the time,"  while the one juror who initially voted guilty said "In our hearts we felt he was guilty,” right before she said she didn't even think it should have gone to trial. Publicity stunt she called it.

I don't remember anything from the other members so I would have to do some serious speculation in assuming if they thought he was guilty of murder.


Personally I think the jurors were in damage control at that point anyway as tensions were pretty high. I would be hard pressed to hold any of them accountable to what they said in the immediate weeks afterwards. I can't imagine the stress they were under trying to justify their votes one way or the other.

Hard to argue any of those points. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

[...]the one juror who initially voted guilty said "In our hearts we felt he was guilty,” right before she said she didn't even think it should have gone to trial. Publicity stunt she called it.

Those positions are not mutually exclusive.

You can think that a trial is a waste of time and money (due to the lack of proof of the prosecution) while still believing the person in question committed the crime.

As pro-Zimmerman posters have stated time and again, the jury is not supposed to vote on whether they personally believe Zimmerman committed murder, but rather on whether that has been proven by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Landshark]

As pro-Zimmerman posters have stated time and again, the jury is not supposed to vote on whether they personally believe Zimmerman committed murder, but rather on whether that has been proven by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt.

And in this case, that is exactly what they did.

[bsmooth]

Yea ... that's not how I remember it. One of the jurors who voted not guilty said "I have no doubt George feared for his life in the situation he was in at the time,"  while the one juror who initially voted guilty said "In our hearts we felt he was guilty,” right before she said she didn't even think it should have gone to trial. Publicity stunt she called it.

I don't remember anything from the other members so I would have to do some serious speculation in assuming if they thought he was guilty of murder.


Personally I think the jurors were in damage control at that point anyway as tensions were pretty high. I would be hard pressed to hold any of them accountable to what they said in the immediate weeks afterwards. I can't imagine the stress they were under trying to justify their votes one way or the other.

Since you have forgotten. The first poll of the jury came up three to acquit and three to convict.  http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul/15/nation/la-na-nn-zimmerman-juror-20130715

[bsmooth]

3 not guilty, 2 manslaughter and 1 guilty of murder

Where do you guys get the jury thought he was guilty? The lady you quoted was the only one who originally voted him guilty but Maddy said she realized there wasn't enough proof to convict Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter under Florida law.

"I was the juror that was going to give them the hung jury. I fought to the end," she said.

Interestingly she also said this ... When asked by Roberts whether the case should have gone to trial, Maddy said, "I don't think so. I felt like this was a publicity stunt. This whole court service thing to me was publicity," she said.

Half thought he was guilty initially. That is where.

[CF DolFan]

You said 5 of 6 before. Now you are saying manslaughter is the same as thinking murder to make it equal half. Never one to admit being wrong are you?

Both you and Spider have to rely on speculation. I guess that's ok for personal opinion but it's certainly not fact.

[Spider-Dan]

Now you are saying manslaughter is the same as thinking murder to make it equal half. Never one to admit being wrong are you?

Actually, you're the only one playing musical chairs with the charges to dodge the point.  Everyone else has been saying that the jury thought he was guilty (of at least one of the charges against him), but that the prosecution did not prove their case.

Both you and Spider have to rely on speculation.

Direct quote from juror B29:  "You can’t put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty."  Exactly how much speculation does that require?

The plain and simple fact is that there are jurors who are on the record as believing that GZ illegally killed Martin, but they voted not guilty because the evidence wasn't there.  This is a FAR CRY from "Zimmerman was acquitted, therefore Martin clearly committed assault."

[CF DolFan]

Spider. Your making assumptions off of one juror. Show me other quotes from the other jurors. That's what I'm asking.

Manslaughter = murder that can't be proved to you. I get that. Breaking news i guess but it doesn't mean that for everyone. So unless you have the other four jurors comments you only have one who says he was guilty of murder but shouldn't have even been brought to trial and the other who says she had no doubt he was in fear of his life and it was self defense.  Every other conclusion of what the others were thinking is a guess unless you know something I don't and haven't provided.

[Spider-Dan]

Again, you're the only one repeatedly referencing "murder."  Manslaughter is still criminal homicide.

And if one juror thought he was guilty of murder and two thought he was guilty of manslaughter, then that means that half the jury believed Zimmerman illegally killed Martin, but that the evidence provided did not support a conviction.

[pondwater]

I find it amusing that everyone discounts the thoughts of ghetto train wreck witness for the prosecution. Rachel Jeantel says Martin threw the first punch. After all, she knew him better than anyone here or on the jury. After all she was on the phone with him at the time. I'll take her word for it, Trayvon hit first. And if that's the case, then he was committing assault and Zimmerman was defending himself. Case closed.

[bsmooth]

I find it amusing that everyone discounts the thoughts of ghetto train wreck witness for the prosecution. Rachel Jeantel says Martin threw the first punch. After all, she knew him better than anyone here or on the jury. After all she was on the phone with him at the time. I'll take her word for it, Trayvon hit first. And if that's the case, then he was committing assault and Zimmerman was defending himself. Case closed.

She never testified to this. Nowhere in the transcripts does it show she said he threw the first punch. If you have evidence from the trial where she said that as part of her testimony, I would love to see it.

[Phishfan]

Rachel Jeantel says Martin threw the first punch.

There is absolutely no testimony to this. If she has said something outside the courtroom I have not heard it either.

[Buddhagirl]

There is absolutely no testimony to this. If she has said something outside the courtroom I have not heard it either.

She never testified to this. Nowhere in the transcripts does it show she said he threw the first punch. If you have evidence from the trial where she said that as part of her testimony, I would love to see it.

But pondwater does not use mainstream media. He has an inside source that we do not all have.