Colorado Democrats lose recall elections over gun-control votes

[Spider-Dan]

If that happened, I would grab my gun and hunt down the man responsible.  All the more reason to allow private gun ownership.

So to be clear, you are citing vigilante violence as an intended consequence of widespread gun ownership?

[Phishfan]

legally-armed civilians who attack unarmed civilians?

At this point they are not in posession of the firearm for legal purposes anymore. Law abiding citizens do not make this list and these are the people I am talking about being served an injustice.

[Landshark]

this is bullshit .. pure and simple .. you know what stops a bad guy with a gun .. the bad guy not having a gun

And that statement right there is bullshit.  For the simple reason that passing a law preventing citizens from owning guns will not stop bad guys from obtaining them, but will leave good guys unable to defend themselves.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

this is bullshit .. pure and simple .. you know what stops a bad guy with a gun .. the bad guy not having a gun

Unless you are planning on eliminating every gun from the face of the earth (which by the way will never ever happen).....the bad guy not having a gun is impossible to accomplish and completely illogical!!!!!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It already is illegal to knowing sell someone a gun if you know they cannot legally own one. Also a 1-2 year purchasing permit would not be able to stop recently convicted felons.

And under my proposed change, you can't bury your head in the sand and sell guns to random people that you don't know are felons or not. 

And yes, it would deal with recent felons as well, b/c there would be a record said person had a permit, and as part of the sentence, the felon would be required to turn in his purchase permit.

[Fau Teixeira]

And that statement right there is bullshit.  For the simple reason that passing a law preventing citizens from owning guns will not stop bad guys from obtaining them, but will leave good guys unable to defend themselves.

Passing laws outlawing murder won't stop the bad guys from killing people .. it'll just leave the good guys unable to legal murder anyone .. woe to the good guys ..

Passing laws outlawing killing endangered species won't stop the bad guys from shooting down a bald eagle with a uzi .. and having a delicious eagle dinner .. it just means the good guys can't have general tso's bald eagle.

Passing laws outlawing stealing won't stop the bad guys from stealing .. it'll just prevent good guys from stealing an awesome flat screen TV from walmart.

bull .. shit .. pure and simple .. it's circular garbage language and poor thinking on your part.

Stop crowing back talking points from a gun manufacturer trade group who's only purpose is to sell guns and use your own brain if you want to talk about a topic.

[Fau Teixeira]

Unless you are planning on eliminating every gun from the face of the earth (which by the way will never ever happen).....the bad guy not having a gun is impossible to accomplish and completely illogical!!!!!

I don't need to eliminate EVERY gun .. i'll settle for an Australian style gun control system.

which has had pretty good results to the tune of a 47% decrease in gun related deaths

nerdy report here

[Spider-Dan]

At this point they are not in posession of the firearm for legal purposes anymore. Law abiding citizens do not make this list and these are the people I am talking about being served an injustice.

That is a completely self-serving, tautological answer, and it misses the entire point.

The problem is precisely that current gun laws allow overarmed law-abiding citizens to make their first crime an incredibly deadly and catastrophic one.

You can't simply hand-wave it away by saying, "Oh, well now they aren't law-abiding anymore," because the effect of the policies you and yours espouse is that you would have been fiercely defending the right of Jared Loughner to own a 30-round magazine on January 7, 2011, or James Holmes to own all his weapons on July 19, 2012, or Nancy Lanza to own all her weapons on December 13, 2012.

That's like eliminating all DUI laws, waiting for crashes, and then saying, "Well, that guy couldn't handle his liquor, but that's no reason to punish the rest of the drivers who drink responsibly."

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Unless you are planning on eliminating every gun from the face of the earth (which by the way will never ever happen).....the bad guy not having a gun is impossible to accomplish and completely illogical!!!!!

Yes, that is an impossible goal.  

But we can seriously reduce the number of bad guys with guns, if we require all people to present proof that they are not a "bad guy" before they can buy a gun.

There are lots of impossible goals.  Just because we can't completely eliminate drunk driving, doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps to reduce it.  

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

I don't need to eliminate EVERY gun .. i'll settle for an Australian style gun control system.

which has had pretty good results to the tune of a 47% decrease in gun related deaths

nerdy report here

If you want to make sure the bad guys don't get them which was what you wrote before, you have to eliminate them all. Eliminate the bad guys from getting them then you eliminate the need for people like myself to need them as well. If you don't eliminate every gun on this planet the bad guys will still get their hands on them leaving people like me defenseless!!!!

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

Yes, that is an impossible goal.  

But we can seriously reduce the number of bad guys with guns, if we require all people to present proof that they are not a "bad guy" before they can buy a gun.

There are lots of impossible goals.  Just because we can't completely eliminate drunk driving, doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps to reduce it.  

Not disagreeing with you but the bad guys will get them no matter what laws or restrictions you set forth. There will be plenty of opportunities and places for them to purchase them without having to show anything.

Therefore I will take my chances with owning and carrying mine with me at all times.

[Phishfan]

You can't simply hand-wave it away by saying, "Oh, well now they aren't law-abiding anymore," because the effect of the policies you and yours espouse is that you would have been fiercely defending the right of Jared Loughner to own a 30-round magazine on January 7, 2011, or James Holmes to own all his weapons on July 19, 2012, or Nancy Lanza to own all her weapons on December 13, 2012.

Me and mine huh? You know my position that well that you assume I do not support any gun legislation? Your assumptions are astounding. I do support legislation but abolition is off the table.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Not disagreeing with you but the bad guys will get them no matter what laws or restrictions you set forth. There will be plenty of opportunities and places for them to purchase them without having to show anything.

Therefore I will take my chances with owning and carrying mine with me at all times.

So you agree we should eliminate the loophole that allows private individuals from selling guns to people they don't know are felons or not. 

Most people who want gun control aren't trying to get rid of all guns, just want some common sense laws to require responsible ownership and use.  Just like most people who support DUI laws aren't trying to bring back the 18th amendment. And requiring drivers licences and licence plates on cars, is far different than banning all automobiles.   

[Landshark]

Stop crowing back talking points from a gun manufacturer trade group who's only purpose is to sell guns and use your own brain if you want to talk about a topic.

I am using my own brain, Mr. Mod..... as a permit carrying gun owner who has seen neighbors be the victims of burglaries and break ins.   

[Spider-Dan]

Me and mine huh? You know my position that well that you assume I do not support any gun legislation? Your assumptions are astounding. I do support legislation but abolition is off the table.

Then I guess it's a good thing that there has never been any legislation in Congress to abolish guns, isn't it?

To this point, all you've done is insist upon the protection of your right to bear arms, while citing the boilerplate "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" silliness.  But maybe I have misinterpreted your position.   So feel free to list off some of the sane and reasonable gun control legislation you support... because apparently, you don't support closing of the "gun show loophole":

This is a bit of a misnomer. It isn't because of the gun shows. A licensed dealer still has to perform the background checks. The loophole is private purchases. Private citizens can sell guns to others without performing a background check, although it is illegal to knowingly do it with someone you know cannot own a gun. This sale can happen at someone's house or at a gun show. It just sounds better for the anti-gun groups to call it a gun show loophole rather than a person's private transaction loophole.

And you also don't seem to support the idea of a purchasing permit:

It already is illegal to knowing sell someone a gun if you know they cannot legally own one. Also a 1-2 year purchasing permit would not be able to stop recently convicted felons.

So what do you support, exactly?  Banning of assault weapons?  Restriction on high-capacity magazines?  National gun registry?