Redskins "Name" debate

[Dave Gray]

"Redskin" is a racial descriptor of disputed origin for Native Americans. Although by some accounts not originally having negative intent,[1] the term is now defined by dictionaries of American English as "usually offensive",[2] "disparaging",[3][4] "insulting",[5] "taboo" [6] and is avoided in public usage with the exception of its continued use as a name for sports teams.


As for Indians, that's a different debate, considering that they aren't Indians at all and it was mistaken identity.  But if Indian was a racial slur for Native Americans, I would understand that, as well.  And to Pondwater, I'm not saying that they should be forced to change it legally.  They should be willing to change it, morally.

I mean....would you call a native american a redskin?  It's not the same as calling an African American "black."

It's very similar to the term "wetback."  It'd be like if there was a Texas team from the 40s called the Wetbacks that just never changed.  It's not something that I'm sensitive about, but I certainly understand why others might feel put off by it. 

[CF DolFan]

I said the same thing Brian. If it was slander then the team wouldn't want to be called it. No one is fighting to be called the Washington Honkeys, Coons, Spics, Waps or Wetbacks.

[Spider-Dan]

By definition, the word "chink" ceases to be a slur if people aren't insulted by it.

You're reaching hard, Brian.  You mean to tell me that you would see no problem with, say, your mayor referring to a Native American as a "redskin"?

[Dave Gray]

Imagine if the Washington Redskins never existed and there was a new team called the New Mexico Redskins.  There's no way that would fly.

[Brian Fein]

I'm saying that the word "redskin" is not used in everyday vernacular and, thus, has no meaning other than a football team from Washington.

What is they renamed themselves the Washintgon Hoodlywoggles, and then 50 years from now, they decided that Hoodlywoggle is offensive to hamsters and they should change their name for the sake of the hamster sensitivity movement?

Just think, at some point, when words are no longer used, they lose meaning and become nothing more than a collection of letters that make a word.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

Bet 60 years ago you would have said that 'just because Rosa Parks and couple of other uppity n*****s don't like the bus system is no reason to change that' either.

 

Yes because I don't have any grasp on the concept of basic human rights as opposed to a word that a select few choose to be offended by. Go ahead and take that bet.....It is one you will lose. 

[pondwater]

Imagine if the Washington Redskins never existed and there was a new team called the New Mexico Redskins.  There's no way that would fly.

Wellpinit (Wash.) High School - 91.2 percent Native American
Kingston (Okla.) High School - 57.7 percent Native American
Red Mesa (Ariz.) High School - 99.3 percent Native American

[EKnight]

Wellpinit (Wash.) High School - 91.2 percent Native American
Kingston (Okla.) High School - 57.7 percent Native American
Red Mesa (Ariz.) High School - 99.3 percent Native American

Are any of those schools new, or have they been around for decades?That's kind of an important point, given Dave's post. Interesting that you didn't point out the 28 high schools that dropped that particular name. -EK

[pondwater]

Are any of those schools new, or have they been around for decades?That's kind of an important point, given Dave's post. Interesting that you didn't point out the 28 high schools that dropped that particular name. -EK

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds

Doesn't really matter. If the overwhelming majority of those schools are Native American and using and wearing the name proudly then there is no problem. If you or anyone else don't like it, don't go to the games or buy popcorn, simple enough in a free society.

[Spider-Dan]

What is they renamed themselves the Washintgon Hoodlywoggles, and then 50 years from now, they decided that Hoodlywoggle is offensive to hamsters and they should change their name for the sake of the hamster sensitivity movement?

Are you comparing Native Americans to hamsters?  Sounds pretty similar to the "if we let two men get married, then next a man can marry a turtle" argument.

It's difficult to accept that this is not an issue of a racist slur when the defenses you keep trotting out are the classic excuses used to defend bigotry.

[EKnight]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds

Doesn't really matter. If the overwhelming majority of those schools are Native American and using and wearing the name proudly then there is no problem.

Actually, there IS a problem- it's just not with those 3 schools. With the 28 schools who changed the name, the problem was great enough that they made the change. Even in a fake demacracy like the US, sometimes the "majority rules" approach does actually create change. 28>3. -EK

[Fau Teixeira]

Even in a fake demacracy like the US, sometimes the "majority rules" approach does actually create change. 28>3. -EK

just a small tangent .. because people seem to have a misconception quite often about this.

the US isn't a democracy .. in fact it has never been a democracy and our constitution doesn't establish a democracy.

We live in a representative republic .. we use a democratic method in elections. Originally the founders even restricted that to being JUST the house of representatives. the senate was designed to be state appointed (governor or legislature) and the president is elected by electors which are what is voted on during a presidential election.

So we aren't a fake democracy .. we aren't one at all and have never been.

[EKnight]

^^ That's why I used that exact and specific expression- because an overwhelming number of people think the US is a democracy, and do not understand that it is a republic. It's an old George Carlin quote about our gov't. It's very hard to "read" sarcastic tone in print, so I get why it came across as it did. -EK

[Phishfan]

You guys really are splitting hairs here a bit. A republic is just a represntative democracy. It is hybrid form of the system.

But we should split this off if we continue

[EKnight]

You guys really are splitting hairs here a bit. A democratic republic is a form of democracy.

It is this line of thought that led Carlin to adopt the phrase, and I to steal it from him. -EK