World Series talk

[Denver_Bronco]

It was the right call, but man it sucks to have it end like that.

Too bad for the Sox that the infield single in the 9th is probably an out with an actual first baseman over there. Ortiz' inability to make that scoop was the first mistake. The second mistake was their moronic catcher making that throw to third instead of eating it and extending the game.

[wyvernmcd]

I'm confused about something.

After the game a reporter asked "what was the 3rd baseman supposed to do?" and one of the umpires said "get out of the way". My question is, how?

Granted, it was a dumb play by the catcher to do throw to 3rd when he didn't have a play and the ball missed the 3rd baseman causing him to fall over (in the attempt of catching it) because of the throwing error. Had the 3rd baseman stayed put, the baserunner would have tripped over the 3rd baseman. Had the 3rd baseman moved (as he did last night), the baserunner tripped over the 3rd baseman. So as the 3rd baseman who is lying on the field noticing the baserunner is getting up from moving to 3rd to run to home plate, what was he supposed to do?

The answer (according to the umpire, as I am hearing it) made it seem that the 3rd baseman was not allowed to fall in an attempt to catch the ball because it caused the risk of impedance to the runner attempting to score which would mean that the throwing error caused the impedance of the runner so the 3rd baseman whom missed the throw basically automatically granted the runner at 3rd to score regardless of the outcome because he fell over trying to catch the ball. Is that the right understanding according to the rule as written in the rule book and how the umpire explained it? I feel that it was a poor choice of words to express about the play.

I also thought this would invite the possibility of the baserunner running on top of the fielder whom is lying on the ground because of the impedance of the run (according to the rule) but allowing that (I would think) would be questionable because it would invite an allowable opportunity to injure the fielder.

Please clarify.

[Denver_Bronco]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_(baseball)

Click on obstruction - the fielder has every right to go after the ball, or is perfectly within rights if he possess the baseball. Like the ump said get out of the way. He could have moved toward second rather than flapping his feet back towards the baseline where the runner was. The ball was thrown to the inside of 3rd. He had no reason being where he was once the ball got by him.

[wyvernmcd]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_(baseball)

Click on obstruction - the fielder has every right to go after the ball, or is perfectly within rights if he possess the baseball. Like the ump said get out of the way. He could have moved toward second rather than flapping his feet back towards the baseline where the runner was. The ball was thrown to the inside of 3rd. He had no reason being where he was once the ball got by him.

I think the problem I have is the timeframe of all that occurred.

The throw going to the inside of 3rd was to make a play on the runner and it was missed. Had the fielder tried moving out of the way after he dove to the ground, the runner still would have hit the fielder in the time it all went down so even if the fielder was in the right for trying to move out of the way, he would have sill been called as obstructing the runner. I think this is where I see an issue with the rule.

I do agree that the fielder did not help his cause by flipping his feet up after the play because I think that made it look more like an intentional trip rather than if he laid there or tried to push himself up to move out of the way.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Yeah, flipping his feet up may have been what did it. It looked very likely that Craig would've scored had Middlebrooks not been on the ground.

It's a shame that this will be remembered and not Salty's stupid throw or Farrel's decision to let a rookie pitcher bat in the 8th over Mike Napoli. I believe Maine wanted Ross in over Salty, although I doubt he saw this coming.

[MaineDolFan]

Too bad for the Sox that the infield single in the 9th is probably an out with an actual first baseman over there. Ortiz' inability to make that scoop was the first mistake. The second mistake was their moronic catcher making that throw to third instead of eating it and extending the game.

True and true.  Need Ortiz's bat in the lineup, he is almost single handedly carrying the Sox offense.  But Nap scoops that ball.  Farrell should have made a double switch.  You won't see Salty again this series.

[MaineDolFan]

A couple issues with the call in game 3:

The ball got by Middlebrooks.  Craig landed ON Middlebrooks.  The defensive player has a right to the ball, the runner has a right to the plate.  Middlebrooks had no clue where the ball was and was trying to get to it, while Craig was trying to get up.  The letter of the law was upheld, but it's a crap rule.  When asked, Joe Torre admitted it's a crap rule.  It's never been tested.  It's too bad it happened on such a stage.  The game should not end in that manner, both teams deserve better.  It will be addressed in the offseason.  Make no mistake, the right call was made, based on the current rules. 

St. Louis, more so, deserves better. 

Here is why:

If St. Louis goes on to win this series, folks will forever reference this series, and the win, with that game.  Almost an asterisk.  Boston can go on to win and be fine.  They "clawed and scratched and overcame the 'obstruction call' to win the World Series."  If St. Louis wins they were the best team in the National League, they had great pitching, timely defense, timely hitting...and they benefitted from a meltdown never seen before in a game where a runner, to this day, still hasn't crossed home plate.  They were awarded the run, but they didn't really win, and that's too bad.  The game should have been decided on the field.  Again, I am NOT disputing the call.  Zero sour grapes.  Additionally, the throw shouldn't have been made.  Hold the ball and let your closer deal with the guy at the plate.  St. Louis deserves to win with a clean base hit off Koji and Craig trotting home, no drama.  The rest of the game, and the series, has been too damn good.  Hopefully the rest of the series is so freaking good it erases part of that, but I doubt it.  I know how baseball historians look.  The Cards, if they go on to win this, will forever be looked at as World Series winners who "won" a World Series 3 games to 3.

A few things have happened a little too late for MLB, including this rule and instant replay. 

Tonight is a massive swing game (clearly).  However I do like Boston's chances, now that they managed to grab a game on the road.  I was pretty nervous about St. Louis wrapping it up with three straight on the road.  Boston's offense has gone cold at the wrong ass time, going into a National League park was going to do zero to help that. 

What could be cooler than a game 7 at Fenway park on Halloween night?  Let's see if it gets there.

[MaineDolFan]

Yeah, flipping his feet up may have been what did it. It looked very likely that Craig would've scored had Middlebrooks not been on the ground.

It's a shame that this will be remembered and not Salty's stupid throw or Farrel's decision to let a rookie pitcher bat in the 8th over Mike Napoli. I believe Maine wanted Ross in over Salty, although I doubt he saw this coming.

To be fair, I think a lot of folks are incorrectly giving Salty "credit" for both of the bad throws to 3rd in this series.  One of those belongs to Breslow.  Salty owns the one in game 3. 

I didn't see this, of course not.  But something of similar ilk.  When you have a bad defensive catcher in the game, sometimes it's not always the plays you make.  It's the decisions and choices you decide to not make, the balls you eat.  David Ross, I think, would have eaten that ball and given his closer a chance to deal with the guy at the plate.  The game was tied at that point.  Your closer had thrown nine pitches.  Get the guy at the plate, the top of your order was coming up, you were nowhere near having to worry about hitting for your pitcher.  Live to fight another day. 

[CF DolFan]

If St. Louis goes on to win this series, folks will forever reference this series, and the win, with that game. 

Personally I think things like this helps people to remember it outside of the normal St Louis and Boston fans.  I don't really rememebr anything from the last time the two played other than a sweep. This will stick out.

[MaineDolFan]

^^Agreed, it will.  It also helps folks to remember for the wrong reasons, though.  It's too bad, game 3 was really, really good.

[CF DolFan]

^^Agreed, it will.  It also helps folks to remember for the wrong reasons, though.  It's too bad, game 3 was really, really good.

The end of game 4 will be memorable as well!! Not every day a pinch runner gets picked off to end a game.

[MaineDolFan]

No.  Rookie mistake, caught him napping.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Personally I think things like this helps people to remember it outside of the normal St Louis and Boston fans.  I don't really rememebr anything from the last time the two played other than a sweep. This will stick out.

The end of game 4 will be memorable as well!! Not every day a pinch runner gets picked off to end a game.

Only one will be remembered. 

If the Red Sox win the series nobody will remember game 3.

If St L. wins the series nobody will remember game 4.

[MaineDolFan]

Lester was nails last night.  Should be an interesting ending to this series.

Here is something no one ever thought I would say:

Thank God Lackey is pitching tomorrow night.

[Dave Gray]

No.  Rookie mistake, caught him napping.

Worse is that the runner at first didn't really matter.