Coaches told Incognito to toughen Martin up

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The NFL is not some club.  It is a government sanctioned monopoly with a union.

Spider is right.  If this is true, this is big problems for Philbin, depending on the timing.  This can cost the NFL a fortune potentially and Philbin will be the fallguy.

I see this shaking out very similar to Lisa Olson.  

Incongnito done.

A losing head coach loses his job. (Philbin)

Dolphins pay a boatload of money to Marin.

NFL issues formal a formal policy regarding behavior that specifically addresses the worst of the hazing (such as the racial epitaphs  and specifically banning rookies from paying for vets)

[MikeO]

We are a nation that doesn't bat an eye when a school bus flips over and 17 kids get killed, but if a dog were on board?  Oh boy...(IE, we have whacked priorities).

LOL....so true!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

That isn't going to happen "THIS SEASON", they aren't winning the Super Bowl this year. So you are saying he will be fired over this then. Am I understanding your stance?

Yes, he will be fired.  However, the team might not say cite the Martin incident specifically as a reason.

[MikeO]

Yes, he will be fired.  However, the team might not say cite the Martin incident specifically as a reason.

Well if they go 9-7 or 10-6 and they fire him...its gonna be pretty obvious why they did it. In your other post above I agree with with Martin getting paid and Richie done, not so sure about the Philbin one though. I could see low level assistant (Jim Turner) be a a fall guy before him. I think this case is unique and I'm not sure Philbin's head will roll over this. We will see though and time will tell which one of us is right on this

[Spider-Dan]

I'll just say this, an order to toughen up Martin was probably OK.

An order to "toughen up Martin" after he has come to you with what (from a legal standpoint) is unquestionably a valid grievance about workplace conditions is most certainly NOT OK.  Again, NFL players are not gladiators, nor are they soldiers.  They have the same legal labor protections as other employees in America.

But if this order came in response to Martin missing a voluntary workout?  The NFLPA will come down on this like a prehistoric meteor.  A record of management openly retaliating against a player for missing a voluntary workout would be a significant problem for the NFLPA in normal conditions; management committing a labor law violation (yes, there are labor laws against workplace harassment, as well as criminal laws against extortion) while directly asking another player to retaliate is nuclear.

[CF DolFan]

Like I said in another post... The NFL has known about these practices and everyone knows it.  Whomever is made the scapegoat will either be compensated for taking one for the team or Pandora's box is going to be opened!

Btw.... Even the local high schools voluntary workouts aren't!! Wink wink

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Well if they go 9-7 or 10-6 and they fire him..

Going 10-6 is probably the worst case situation for Ross.

Dolphins make it to the AFCCG, Ross can cite Philban's ability to rally the troops after adversity.    

Dolphins get blown out by Tampa and Ross can get rid of next Monday on the basis of lacking leadership.  

[Spider-Dan]

CF, right now the story from other NFL players is, "Yeah, we know about light-hearted stuff but these voicemails from Incognito are way over the line, and forcing someone to kick in $15K for a trip they didn't go on is crazy."

Pandora's box wasn't opened with Spygate and it wasn't opened with Bountygate.  The Dolphins will be made an example of and everyone will move on.

[CF DolFan]

There are more repercussions to getting rid of these guys in my opinion. Will make for an interesting blow up of the league. There's way more than the light hearted stuff going on. I promise you!!!

And if you think Richie is the only guy on our team then you are foolish.

[Phishfan]

An order to "toughen up Martin" after he has come to you with what (from a legal standpoint) is unquestionably a valid grievance about workplace conditions is most certainly NOT OK.  Again, NFL players are not gladiators, nor are they soldiers.  They have the same legal labor protections as other employees in America.

But if this order came in response to Martin missing a voluntary workout?  The NFLPA will come down on this like a prehistoric meteor.  A record of management openly retaliating against a player for missing a voluntary workout would be a significant problem for the NFLPA in normal conditions; management committing a labor law violation (yes, there are labor laws against workplace harassment, as well as criminal laws against extortion) while directly asking another player to retaliate is nuclear.

You are stretching what I said. In no way and I excusing retaliation tactics. I simply said Martin did need some toughening up. Besides, your timeline may be screwed up. Voluntary workouts happened in April. Incognito's call happened in April. Martin claims to have gone to Philbin in April. You are assuming one is before the other but it may be the other way around. Am I suggesting they told Incognito to go to this extreme, no way.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

"

Pandora's box wasn't opened with Spygate and it wasn't opened with Bountygate.  The Dolphins will be made an example of and everyone will move on.

Bingo.  Does anybody seriously believe that Sal Alosi was acting on his own or that he was first person to get into a players way?

The everybody does it defense is has a horrible win record.    

But behavior will change in everyone's locker room. 

[Brian Fein]

Sorry, Spider, but you are blowing this up to be WAY more than it is.

1) You are the only one using the word "retaliation."  No media outlet has suggested that Philbin has twirled his thumbs in his office saying "I'll show him for missing practice... MUAHAHAHA!!"

2) OTA's are labeled as "optional" but are not optional.  Stars like tom Brady and Peyton Manning can miss OTA's.  Jonathan Martin is expected to attend.

3) Martin missed OTA's in April, but never mentioned why or brought up a concern about being harassed until THIS WEEK.  You make it sound like Martin went to Philbin and said "Coach, Richie's being a dick to me" and Philbin said "Hey, Richie, good job, be MORE of a dick to him"

4) The story says "coaches" asked Richie to toughen him up.  There are lots of coaches.  Doesn't specifically point out Philbin. I'm guessing this could be Turner's doing, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's fired in the next 1-2 weeks.  I don't see Philbin's job being in jeopardy just yet, unless this gets even worse.

Let's try to keep facts in line here.  I feel like this story is getting out of control with rumors, mixed up timelines, and speculation.

[Spider-Dan]

If Martin's visit with Philbin happened after the Code Aqua then Philbin is definitely in trouble.  He essentially generated harassment that Martin was complaining about and did not follow up with Incognito to make sure it stayed within the bounds of reason.  It's bad, and shows incompetence on his part, but he can recover from it and there probably won't be NLRB involvement.

If Martin's visit with Philbin happened before the Code Aqua then Philbin is unemployable in the NFL, Incognito is done, NFLPA will scramble the jets, NLRB/feds will get involved, and Martin won't have to worry about any lost earning potential because he'll be one of the best paid NFL players in recent memory after his multimillion-dollar lawsuit.

[CF DolFan]

NFL response... Richie was over zealous but not mean spirited. Sensitivity training for him! Lol

[Dave Gray]

2) OTA's are labeled as "optional" but are not optional.

While this might be the unwritten rule from within the fraternity, if someone doesn't participate and then something like what happened to Martin is justified to encourage the optional practice, then the union will lose their shit.

I really think you guys are missing that this isn't just some company.  It's government sanctioned, because it's a monopoly.  Unions are serious business and have a lot of power.